John Kasich Confused About Why Women Objected To His Sexual Assault Victim-Blaming Comments

[screamingintune]

Gov. John Kasich (R-OH) said on Sunday that he does not understand the criticism over his comments Friday suggesting that college women should prevent sexual assaults by avoiding parties with alcohol.
In an interview with CNN’s Dana Bash, the Republican presidential hopeful noted that his own daughters will someday go to college parties where there

Comments

[screamingintune]

*sighs*

You are still failing to understand that rape can literally happen anywhere at any time. In fact, MOST rapes are from people the victims know.

A cultural shift on this matter is possible and there is movement on it, and no, it won't happen overnight, but shifting the focus from telling women how not to get raped (which, btw, doesn't work. There's no like, anti-rape spray you can apply) to teaching men about what consent means, taking victims more seriously, having boys taught at a young age appropriate boundaries instead of romanticizing it and thinking it's cute when little boys chase girls for a kiss, not putting out media like "Blurred Lines" and when it comes to college campuses, cracking down HARD on groups like fraternities which often overtly make jokes about rape...

this is much more effective than trying to give girls and women some false sense of security that if they never go out after dark and never drink and cover themselves from head-to-toe they'll be safe from the wild men who can't handle it... like, do you have any idea how much that sort of thing aligns perfectly with like, the fucking Taliban?

[aasin]

Like I said, I understand you completely. You´re absolutely right. The rapist though doesn´t have the same views as I though. You don´t want to see anyone get raped nor do I. We just see the solution to handle it differently. So that is fine you can continue to advocate teaching men to keep their hands to themselves and I will tell women not to walk alone at night. Call me sexist that is fine. I´ll take the title if it prevents a woman from getting raped.

[screamingintune]

your "solution" has what we've been trying and it hasn't worked at all

it's not just about teaching men to keep their hands to themselves, it's also about teaching them what consent means and what rape IS. dumpweeds dropped a link below, 1 in 3 men don't see "forcible sex" as rape when it's literally the definition. Education should happen, and it should be primarily focused at boys and men so they fully understand what they're doing and whether or not it's rape.

and you can cool it with the "call me a sexist if you want" comments. I never once said that.

[aasin]

Okay Betty that is fine. You got your ways I got mine. That´s chill I can respect that.

[spyral_out]

Listen. Making a bogeyman and a mythical beast out of ~The Rapist~ has the effect of otherizing people who rape rather than recognizing that they're real people, and they're everywhere, and that most people who rape don't even see what they did as wrong. Rather than acknowledging that people who rape live in and are part of our society and dealing with the elements of our society and culture that allow and encourage it, you're proposing that women stay indoors, that women not drink in public (or in private or around other people), that women cover themselves "more" (whatever that means), that women ultimately become kept people, and if they don't take every possible step to prevent being attacked well then it's their fault, you're on their side, really you are, but tch tch rapists just aren't regular people are they?

If you don't acknowledge that people who rape exist in our society, if you insist that the burden is on women to not be the victims of attack, you are enabling the rapes, and you are complicit in them. Until you acknowledge that, just stop talking. We don't buy that you're "on our side." You're part of the problem.

[mimblexwimble]

It actually doesn't prevent women from getting raped.

[dumpweeds]

not to mention, 1 in 3 college men don't even consider forcible sex rape*

*should be noted that it was a small survey but I've seen this statistic several other times over the years from other surveys across the US, this was just the first one I found

[screamingintune]

there's been loads of polling that backs that up, I've seen them though it's almost 5am so I'm not going to go link hunting, but the polling has been done. people don't think women can be raped by boyfriends/spouses. people think it's not rape if a woman changes her mind at the last moment. people think it's not rape if the word "rape" isn't used and it's like "forcible sex." men think there are situations when they're "owed" sex.

[dumpweeds]

people generally only think it's rape when:

1. it's a man and a woman
2. and they don't know each other
3. and he had a weapon
4. and she fought back
5. and he left DNA inside her
6. and if she reported it to the police AND did a rape kit
7. oh, and she better be sober!
8. and wearing sweatpants and a baggy t-shirt!

if ANY of those things are left out, then nope, not rape.

[elialshadowpine]

TW Rape

This is why I opted not to report my rapist. We were in a relationship, making out, I was under the influence of sleep meds that he knew made me pliable, and I did say I was uncomfortable with sex because we had effectively been not involved for two months, so I was not okay with the sudden interest now that he was horny. I was so drugged that even though I said I wasn't okay with it, he gave some lines about how he was lonely and just wanted physical intimate contact, and that ... well in my drugged brain it was a pity fuck. But I realized immediately after, even still drugged, that I was not okay with what happened. I have a chat log still from talking to a friend after I went upstairs: "I think I just got raped."

But, because of all these factors, I knew it would not go well for me. I did use it as a threat when he was being an ass about us evicting him, and said I could get a restraining order (I probably could have based on other factors) and have him out that day, and that I could report him for what he did. My ex-partner told him flat-out, "In a perfect world, you'd be in jail right now."

But it's not a perfect world. It's a world that punishes women for being victimized. So I didn't report. And I have talked a lot about it in various places for visibility, because this needs to be known.

[screamingintune]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. And you're right (referencing your other comments here) -- I have never been raped but as a woman with woman friends I have known a lot of women who have, and every single one of them was raped by someone they knew. Every single one. Often a boyfriend or husband.

[elialshadowpine]

TW rape

Thank you. *hugs offered*

I know decidedly few women who have not been raped. I also know many non-binary people and men who have been raped. Honestly, a surprising amount of the latter; I'd actually guess that about 30% of my male friends are survivors. I wouldn't use that as the average for the populace as a whole, but rather indicative about who I am friends with.

ALL the people I know have been raped by people they knew. Yes, a boyfriend, girlfriend, husband/wife, partner, or friend. Don't get me started on woman on woman rapes, which are pretty universally ignored, but something that has happened to me. If I have to explain "how that works" one more time I may just strangle someone.

[soleiltropiques]

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

[soleiltropiques]

TW Rape.

Yeah I didn't report my almost rape either.

I didn't report it because the man who almost raped me (and would have if I hadn't managed to get away from him) basically implied I had 'overreacted'. I actually believed him (in part because one of my friends actually agreed with him) and convinced myself it wasn't a big deal (I was only 18).

PS: He was also someone I knew and it didn't happen in a dark alley/street.

PPS: Not as horrible as what happened to nonnycat, though, of course. I got lucky.

(Edited to add an additional point+for typos because I can't type with cold fingers)

[elialshadowpine]

TW Rape (detailed) and BDSM

I'm sorry. This is going to get long and detailed, because I feel it's important to talk about. Uh, written after I went to post... let me say, a LOT longer than I meant. I'm not quite sure how to TLDR this but I'm going to steal one paragraph from near the end that I think sums up why I am writing this. I make the offer at the end for cookies, but dear gods, I think anyone who finishes reading this needs a goddamn PLATTER of cookies (plus, the dark side always has 'em). Since they're virtual cookies, pick your fav. :)

OK, excerpt of two paragraphs:

So... no, sweetie*, I did not "have it worse." We both had traumatic things happen to us, and it's entirely possible if we both talked in detail about our experiences, I might think you had it worse. Because that's how we're trained to think. I firmly believe this is a heavily conditioned thought train that needs to be broken. ANYONE, male, female, otherwise, who has been raped has been traumatized, and it shouldn't be about "who has it worse." We should be there to support each other, because we've all been hurt, instead of worrying that we weren't hurt enough for it to "count." I'd also argue that focusing on how other people have it worse lessens the seriousness of our own trauma and can lead focus away from healing from our own trauma.

So, again, no. Very much no. You, and everyone else who has been talking about their own experiences, even in this thread around a particularly dense person who refuses to listen to women's experience, all of us, our trauma is important to us, affects us, and there is no gauging. I was reading... I believe it was in the Lewinksy interview, where she was talking about anti-bullying, and she said that people would tell her they didn't have it "as bad." Implying that it didn't count somehow. What she'd tell them (paraphrased) is that it didn't matter if they were both in water and she was 60ft in and the other person was 30ft in... both are going to drown. I thought that was an especially eloquent way to describe how trauma sizing helps no one, and instead does harm.

Following is the much more detailed version, with more of my experiences than I had discussed in that one comment:

I feel I need to speak up. I know plenty of people that I could describe "have it worse", although I can't give details because confidentiality.

Actually, I can describe this situation because I have permission as my family is large enough it would be impossible to figure out "who". One of my aunts has talked about her sister being raped next to her in the bed they shared. Their mom beat them for "lying" and their rapist cousin was allowed continued access. The fact that pretty much all of the men on my Mom's side, save my uncles and cousins (who are survivors themselves), are rapists is pretty damn terrifying.

I believe very much in there not being a trauma Olympics. I think everyone, no matter the severity, thinks that what they went through wasn't as bad. I think about what some of my friends, and family, have gone through and to me, what happened isn't that bad because it hasn't been super traumatizing. It's not that it was fun to go through, but it took me a couple months to get over; other things that ex did were more traumatic.

Same thing, really, with the woman who raped me three times when I was 19; the relationship and household structure as a whole were way worse than the rapes. One of which I would have consented to, but I was drunk and she didn't *ask* me, and the third, I still don't know if she was awake or asleep but I was most worried about my new partner being upset at me (answer: no, but they were sure upset at her).

(ct'd)

[elialshadowpine]

pt2

The second is the one that bothered me the most, because it was a rape roleplay BDSM scene, and she pushed past my "soft" safeword. It's probable she was acting in character, but ... okay, as a possible partial result of this, I started to realize I am more switchy, and it's only been now, 12yrs later, that I've been able to explore the sub side again. But I've spent a lot of time as a domme, and even in a roleplay scenario, I would hear a soft safeword, however it was phrased, and stop to check in. Breaking the "mood" is less important than making sure your sub/bottom is okay. If you sort things out and can't get back into the "mood", then you either stop or alter the scene, depending on what the sub/bottom want. Also, depending on how comfortable I am; something I think a lot of dommes don't realize is that yes, they can safeword, too. I have done so before because I wasn't confident that we could just move on without potential harm, or simply because I wasn't comfortable doing some of the things asked. (If you hadn't guessed, this is a soapbox of mine.)

I don't think she knows that these would be considered rapes, but she does know they hurt me, especially the second incident. After we ended our relationship, she decided she wasn't really wired well for poly because of various mental health and traumatic issues. What she did as a result of those is what I refer to as more traumatic than the rapes.

I don't think she knows that these would be considered rapes, but she does know they hurt me. I've talked with her in some detail recently after getting back in touch with my nieces (for about a year when I lived there, I was effective co-parent because she was too ill to get out of bed or off the couch most days, and my boyfriend worked crazy hours, so the girls very much remember and love their Auntie Nonny... and holy shit, they're 21 and 18, where the hell did time go!?).

She has properly, in detail, apologized for what she did, mentioned that she got into therapy and on medication for the unresolved issues that were causing her to lash out, and has not had another partner since (confirmed by nieces). What she did to me is not okay, but I know it's very uncommon for someone who was abusive to make that kind of effort and be successful, it's been twelve years so the trauma that remains is very dulled, and I *PERSONALLY* have chosen to forgive her. Note: I do NOT absolutely NOT apply this to anyone else or say it's what they should do; it's how *I* deal with these situations, period, and I'm aware that I am an EXTREME outlier and abnormality.

That doesn't mean I'll forget it or allow myself in a position where I can be hurt again, but the apology was more than I ever thought I'd get, and I miss my friend. My fiancee, who is on this community (omimouse), does not understand how I can forgive someone who did these things to me. All I can say is, different people respond differently. I don't want to carry around the baggage, it was a real apology backed up with action, and closure and being able to move on, whether or not I remain friends with the person, is important to me.

Side note, but it has been joked that with my ability to forgive and rebuild a friendship with someone who hurt me, I am far more Christian than many Christians, and I'm pagan. This amuses me because I hear it from both Christians and pagans. I tell people that for reasons of having a clue by forest in a particularly vivid vision-dream (If curious, I'll explain, but I know the community is a bit twitchy on "woo" so I ask first; if someone wants to know, others can deal), I am pagan because the Christian path isn't mine (too many limitations), but I consider Christ my Father-God and Bast my Mother-Goddess. Pagan response is usually about like this: o__O

ANYWAY. Those aren't even ALL of the rapes (by technicality, seven; I count them, but only about three were actually traumatic, and it did not take me long to recover.

(ct'd... again... hopefully the next will be the last)