Rand Paul claims 2 undergrad degrees, has 0

[chaya]

Rand Paul caught lying about his college record

Comments

[molkat]

The medical school he went to may not have required a bachelor's degree for admission and only required completion of pre-requsite courses.

[layweed]

You're right. According to this WaPo article, Duke didn't require applicants to have a bachelor's degree at the time, though they do now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2015/02/13/rand-pauls-claim-twice-in-one-day-that-he-has-a-biology-degree/

[chaya]

How is that a thing

[molkat]

The requirement of bachelor's degree was prob added to reduce applicants so admissions isn't buried. Also with more applicants, competition increases, more applicants have bachelors and it became the norm. Same thing is happening in pharmacy, at first it was 2 years of pre-req in undergrad, then it was 3 years, and in the next few years a bachelor's will probably be required.

[chaya]

No, I mean, how was there a point where you could go to medical school without getting an undergraduate degree? I live in a world where you aren't even allowed to answer phones without a 4-year degree.

[rhysande]

UMKC (University of Missouri at Kansas City) used to offer a 6-year program from freshman to M.D. in their School of Medicine back in the 70s and 80s. Even at the time it was quite unusual that the school didn't require either a completed bachelor's degree or a completion track for a bachelors's in order to apply to the medical school.

[johnjie]

Well, here in Australia (and in other countries as well) medicine used to be an undergraduate degree - its only in the last ten years or so that it's slowly shifted to a postgraduate one, mimicking the US system.

[lied_ohne_worte]

In Germany, you go and study medicine after leaving school. Getting admitted is quite hard and requires top grades from school (and the level of our top-tier school degrees is AFAIK quite a lot higher than a US high-school diploma), but you start studying to be a doctor right away, which will of course include other subjects like biology and chemistry as required

[skittish_derby]

wow, that sounds a lot more efficient then the way we do it in the U.S.

cool story sis: my husband went into the Navy after high school, he went through an 8 month program to teach him the education he needed to run the ship's power plants. It was an intense and rigorous study. It was the equivalent of a 4 year degree without the useless English and elective classes. (so 2 years worth of classes boiled down into essentials)

This was many years ago, and it streamlined him into walking into several power plant and related jobs. but that four-year degree was elusive. He looked into it at one point, and was dismayed that all that stood between him and a Bachelors was 2 years of useless busy work classes.

Total B.S. as far as I can tell. experience definitely trumps a pointless degree. I know that military doctor's and nurses have a difficult time coming back to the states to find work since their military degrees aren't compatible with the non-military degrees.

[lied_ohne_worte]

It seems that this "general education" with English and so on might be similar to what we do in the last two/three years of school (we have 12/13 years for people who go to university). You can focus on two subjects which will count higher-weighted in the final grade, but (details depending on the state's laws) you're forced to take a wide range of subjects, which count for the final grade, and do final exams in four altogether. For instance, you can't just get rid of all foreign languages or natural sciences, and have to take maths and German right until the end. But in university, one really focuses on the actual subject(s) one takes.

That's indeed interesting about your husband's experience! Particularly with all that "supporting the troops" stuff I read from the US, one would think they might make it easier for people to find jobs and have degrees recognised. At least the university degrees officers here are made to take are "normal" ones, and I think the same is true for practical training for people who are mechanics or other

[skittish_derby]

You would think that there would be more support for soldiers and their families considering the 'rah rah support the troops' hoopla, but alas, they are paid meager wages and their mental health treatment for PTSD and depression is abysmal. most military people are from lower income families and use the military as a way out of poverty, but what they end up getting is indentured service and it is quite depressing. My husband was definitely one of the lucky ones: he was raised in a middle class family and always had their money and support, he also had a fantastic education through 12th grade which gave him a leg up as far as what sorts of fields he was qualified to enter.

[chaya]

As someone who works with the writing that engineers do, there's a good reason to expect everyone to either take or test out of English 101. There are plenty of people who enter college and can't put a paragraph together.

[skittish_derby]

Sure, and I am pretty sure that most colleges have that as a prerequisite for many basic science classes. In DH's case, he had to take aptitude tests which placed him in his particular field.

If someone is given an education through the military, I think it should translate to a college degree if it is the same information. It feels like a no brainer. I am thankful that he never needed the degree to pursue jobs in the same field, but I know his experience isn't necessarily the rule.

[chaya]

That sounds like an accreditation issue.

[nesmith]

THIS. I mean, the idea of being able to string together more than two sentences coherently, how useless.

[chaya]

I realize I'm biased. And I realize that not everyone needs a full semester of Shakespeare. But by god, I had roommates who struggled with their English 101 assignments. And those assignments were things like write a page about what you did over the summer. Some college courses exist purely to replace what wasn't taught in grade school.