(Untitled)

[blackjedii]

Let's Stop Neutralizing MenThere are few sporting events I get as excited about as the World Cup. I played soccer in high school, in the NCAA, and for five years post-college, including two glorious years in the Golden Gate Women's League, Premier Division. What the U.S. Men's National Team has accomplished is extraordinary, with a second

Comments

[joiedumonde]

I'm glad to see this, as I was just saying the same thing (re: USMNT vs USWNT) the other day. I'm also glad to see the extrapolation to broader society.

[blackjedii]

It makes me a little sad (well more than a little) because our women's team has pretty much always been more successful than the men's. And yet they have to re-use jerseys, work under a budget and almost lost their league in America not too long ago. The disparity is very very... disheartening. And I realize it's because it's the women's team(and lol girls totally easier than the men's right?????) but well... THEY WON THE WORLD CUP. AND THE OLYMPICS.

I am still gobsmacked by today though. Utterly gobsmacked.

[deadsong]

I was expecting one thing when I saw the title of this, and got another--and was very pleasantly surprised. I mean, I'm not exactly happy about the problem--it's something that really needs to change, the way we use language to establish otherness and invalidate the accomplishments of people outside what's considered the neutral baseline. I'm just really glad to see a cogent breakdown of the issue.

[star_maple]

There were plenty of social media posts going around before the world cup started saying things like "If the US wins the World Cup, I'll... [insert silly action here]." It made me so mad. I responded to every single one by saying, "The US HAS won the World Cup. Twice." And pasting in a picture of the '99 US Women's World Cup team.

And don't get me started on college teams where the guy's teams are the Cougars or Bulldogs or whatever and the women's teams are the LADY Cougars or LADY Bulldogs. UUUGGGGGHHH.

[thelilyqueen]

I was a Lady Crusader. I suppose Eleanor of Aquitaine would approve?

[bmh4d0k3n]

Someone posted that article on facebook, and a couple of men were commenting on how cumbersome it would be to qualify where needed. Like, seriously? That's your biggest concern? You know what's actually cumbersome? Sexism.

[bananainpyjamas]

I agree that they should add the qualifier, but quality of competition matters. The women's team is dominant because most other countries couldn't give a fuck about women's athletics, so our girls just steamroll what would be the equivalent of high school teams in the US. Same thing goes for the comparison of Coach K and Coach Summit (men's college hoops is much, MUCH more competitive than women's hoops - it's a hell of a lot harder to win consistently in the former). As time goes on, hopefully we'll see increased parity in women's athletics on both a national and international scale. But until then? IDK, it's hard for me to say a goal in the women's world cup is really equivalent to a goal in the men's world cup.

ETA: Re: Coach K and Coach Summit though, I do generally hear Coach K referred to as the "Men's Div I all-time wins leader." I think ESPN and most networks are good about giving Coach Summit her due. I see her as comparable to John Wooden tbh, women's hoops is about as competitive as men's hoops was in his day.

[fishphile]

IDK, it's hard for me to say a goal in the women's world cup is really equivalent to a goal in the men's world cup.

I disagree greatly. The field is the same, the goal is the same and the players are making fantastic plays. I've seen absolutely snooze fest guy's games and stunning women's games. I'm assuming you mean athletically? And I'd have to disagree there too. The people who are great at dribbling are great it, headers the same.

It just so happens that the United States has one of the premier leagues for women, but it doesn't have an equivalent for men. Someone mentioned that in the U.S., guys usually quit soccer to play other sports, but the women continue to play throughout that whole time. I do think that other countries are starting to put more energy into their women's teams though.

[bananainpyjamas]

I don't mean athletically (at least for soccer). It's easier for US women to score a goal because they are, for the most part, playing teams that are significantly worse. Which again goes back to the lack of investment in women's athletics in most of the rest of the world. Hopefully that will change, but the fact is, the men's international game is currently a lot more competitive than the women's game.

[fishphile]

I would definitely not say those teams are significantly worse. Some of them aren't as organized as others.

It still wouldn't explain the great disparity of Abby and Mia to the other men in the world, some of whom may be playing significantly worse opponents.

I think the ability to play longer, as the article mentions, is the great difference, especially for say, Abby, who's playing against a field of women who've played in the U.S. and are familiar with the U.S.'s style.

I do not agree that the men's international game is more competitive. It's just more publicized.