German student Diren Dede killed in 'castle doctrine' case

May 01, 2014 19:07

The father of a German exchange student shot dead in Montana after he trespassed in a man's garage has said the US cannot continue to "play cowboy" with firearms.Markus Kaarma has been charged with deliberate murder in the Sunday killing of Diren Dede, 17, of Hamburg ( Read more... )

oh not this shit again, murder, germany, flames on the side of my face, guns, nra, montana, bbc, usa, america fuck yeah

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lied_ohne_worte May 2 2014, 10:12:36 UTC
Looks like it. There's this article, with the following quote:

Paul cited a witness who alleges that Kaarma issued threats at a hairstyling salon on April 23. The hairstylist, Felene Sherbondy, quoted Kaarma as saying: "I'm just waiting to shoot some fucking kid," according to the prosecution's affidavit.

They're reporting that the young man's host family lived in the same area as the shooter, and that he was looking for something to drink, as his host family always had Gatorade in the garage. So, if he was looking to steal anything at all, he wanted to steal a drink, and I'm sure he did not entertain the thought that trespassing on someone's property could result in his being shot.

The notion that someone could legally be allowed shoot another person (or really fire any firearm at all) for trespassing is not something that would occur to most Germans, unless they've read about US cases such as this, which is widely reported. While quite a number of people have licenses to possess firearms here too, they might not be allowed to fire them at all, or they may do so only in a hunting area they've rented or at a shooting stand (if they got another, more specific license for either of those purposes). Guns for self-defense are not a thing here, even among those who own them.

That's not to say that people here don't occasionally shoot other people. But the idea that someone could do so legally (and I bet that man will get off) is something else.

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nesmith May 2 2014, 13:22:02 UTC
It feels like everyone who visits/studies over here should be taught to treat us like rabid dogs who might go off at any second. :( I hate the moronic gun culture in this damn country and all the hair-trigger assholes who are allowed to own life-ending weaponry and the gun makers who work overtime trying to make it easier and easier to kill someone under the flimsiest of reasons.

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oceandezignz May 2 2014, 13:57:19 UTC
See, if I had not known about the drink thing; I'd have gone into the garage to call out that someone left their purse outside, because I've seen that happen in my neighborhood before.

But knowing my god damn melanin count; I'd probably be stone cold dead after going "does someone need help?".

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oddityangel May 2 2014, 14:25:14 UTC
I'm culturally and geographically close to America, and I still find American gun culture difficult to grasp. It must be baffling for people even further removed from it. The fact that you can INTENTIONALLY create a situation to shoot someone and feel justified in the eyes of the law (and some of the public) is absurd.

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moonshaz May 2 2014, 15:05:53 UTC
I HATE when news stories make it sound like everyone in America is running around waving guns at each other or something. I've lived here my whole life, and I can't even remember the last time I set eyes on a gun that wasn't in a police officer's holster. From what I can see, the gun culture varies GREATLY from one state/region to to another.

Some states, mostly in the south (FL, TX, etc.) and/or the west (i.e., MT, as in this story), seem to pretty crazy about guns, but other places, like IL, where I live, really aren't all that gun happy at all. (Hell, we were the last state in the whole damned country to pass a law to allow people to carry concealed weapons--and that was literally FORCED by a court decision. I think that says quite a bit about the "gun culture" in this state!)

In rural areas, even in this state, people are more likely to hunt and therefore have guns for that. In suburban areas, like where I live, hardly anyone seems to have a gun. I'm sure there must be lots of people who have them that I don't know about, but it's hard to be sure, because people aren't running around brandishing their weapons and bragging about them. As a result, stories like this one seem really alien to me. Not as alien as they sound to people outside the US, I'm sure, but this kind of thing is QUITE outside my experience.

I guess my point (if I have one, lol) is I want all our international friends here to know that ALL Americans--and ALL parts of the country are actually NOT batshit crazy in love with guns, and there are actually a lot of us who can take them or leave them--or prefer to leave them, altogether. Second amendment or no second amendment!

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ladycyndra May 2 2014, 23:37:19 UTC
I live in Tx and I'll be honest. I get nervous when I leave the house because I don't know who around here is packing and what could set them off and I'm caught in the middle.

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deadsong May 3 2014, 00:13:38 UTC
I used to live in Houston, and about 8 years ago I was robbed at gunpoint in broad daylight. Out in the open, by the pool in the courtyard of my apartment, where anyone could walk by at any moment. Before that time I hadn't really ever given a thought to how dangerous it is just to go outside where anyone could have a gun and be stupid/crazy enough to use it.

But having that gun shoved in my face and being told repeatedly "don't look at me, you fucking faggot" has seared that awareness on my brain. I was moving that day, too--leaving Texas to go to Illinois. One more day and I'd have been out of there. Hell, one more hour and I'd have been out of there. And I ended up with years of nightmares, and anxiety in large crowds, never knowing who might have a gun and just be looking for a reason to use it.

Human beings are terrible creatures, sometimes. Unpredictable and utterly without reason, and not giving half a fuck how their actions hurt other people--when those people even survive. I could've been killed that day with half a dozen people watching through their apartment windows, too afraid to do anything, all because one psychopath with a gun wanted to go on a power trip.

I just don't understand the fucking logic behind putting these weapons in people's hands, then defending it. But maybe staring down the barrel of one kind of changes one's perspective a bit.

And I will never go back to Texas again.

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ladycyndra May 3 2014, 00:20:44 UTC
I'm so so sorry! I offer hugs if you want them. No one should have to be put through that. Ever. If I may ask, how are you now?

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deadsong May 3 2014, 14:49:37 UTC
I'm mostly okay. I'm not the most social guy to start with, very introverted and more likely to enjoy hanging out with my friends in my own space than in public places, plus I'm self-employed as an author and work at home. So I don't find myself in situations in public spaces that would make me jumpy as often as I could. Though I'm aware that some of this is likely avoidant, and that I've engineered my life so that I don't have to deal with this and learn to feel safe in public spaces again. But I'm not a shut-in, so that's something. And I don't have nightmares anymore.

And hugs are always welcome. <3

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mephisto5 May 5 2014, 16:04:56 UTC
"I can't even remember the last time I set eyes on a gun that wasn't in a police officer's holster."

Over here, it's odd to even see police officers holding guns - the first time I ever saw it was when I went to see the Houses of Parliament. The culture around guns is very very different.

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