kleios_kiss (kleios_kiss) replied to a comment left by The Notorious Blue Fairy ::ON VACATION:: (girly123)
So here's the short of it: I work with a lot of people IRL who always side-eyed me for reading these types of websites in the first place, and no, not just white women. These sites have become very self-selective and only allow in people who have the same views, regardless of race or gender. I work with/am friends with several people who used to work with the National Urban League of a much older generation who ask me outright why I would do something that allows for so little actual discussion. My boyfriend who's half black likewise puts down these types of sites for what he calls their "policing" and for not focusing on finding constructive solutions to issues - for him, his biggest issue is promoting racial equality and gender equality in the sciences an advancement in academia, but he's outright disdainful of online groups such as these - for example, he says what's needed is discussions on how to make systemic changes and evaluations of what's been done so far for systemic issues, looking at multiple options and allowing for healthy criticism, since he says that's what drives innovation and progress. The people who I work with in legal services for low-income women's justice likewise put down these sites for not recognizing that not everybody is up on all the academia and research and history and that these sites are actually quite classist and tend to isolate people based on that. Also, not everybody always agrees with each other or knows the same amount about different subjects, and I'm speaking intra-racially, intra-religiously and intra-genderdly (yea I just made up a bunch of terms) in addition to inter-everything, but that's not a reason to respond with snark or insults. My boyfriend and I have had our disagreements about the results of certain feminist movements, but the point is, this happens in real life, and then we usually come to agreements, or he acknowledges that he said something insensitive or inaccurate, or I acknowledge that hey, perhaps feminism can take a different approach in certain ways. I mean I'm not opposed to hearing a man's view on issues of feminism because I think it's good to hear things from outside of your own sphere of perception. Sometimes I'll disagree, sometimes I'll learn, sometimes we'll both come to new ideas altogether. But that's because we allow each other to have those discussions and don't just insult each other for it. I think intent is a huge part of this - I have friends who are genuinely intent on achieving gender equality, lowering the wealth gap, etc - but we often have different ideas on how to go about it. Finally, one of my best friends regularly does research and presentations and even publications regarding the inherent racism of NYS drug laws and the history of selective law enforcement (also pharmaceutical law and mental health law). We've worked together in research positions (albeit she has a JD and is an attorney and I'm not, so I've been the unpaid intern) and she says she never reads the comments on sites like this because they're just "infuriating" and would never comment because she thinks it would be professional death. This isn't just about "white women," this is about how the online SJ movements have often become very narrow and a ton of people aren't represented based on age, socioeconomics, and simply different backgrounds and differences of opinion, people who are just waking up to the realities of racism or feminism are shut down and it probably turns them off to the topics, and this type of polarization doesn't too much to create engagement in real life. I used to love these types of sites and think they served a great purpose, and many times they still do, but more often I'm seeing a lot of snark, insults and bullying as opposed to dialogue. I don't agree with everything written in the article above, some of it I vigorously disagree with, but I do think it opens up issues that we do need to address if we are serious about creating national or international change with regards to affecting social justice and equality. Also my "enter" button stopped working so this is all going to be one long thing instead of tiny paragraphs.
So here's the short of it: I work with a lot of people IRL who always side-eyed me for reading these types of websites in the first place, and no, not just white women. These sites have become very self-selective and only allow in people who have the same views, regardless of race or gender. I work with/am friends with several people who used to work with the National Urban League of a much older generation who ask me outright why I would do something that allows for so little actual discussion. My boyfriend who's half black likewise puts down these types of sites for what he calls their "policing" and for not focusing on finding constructive solutions to issues - for him, his biggest issue is promoting racial equality and gender equality in the sciences an advancement in academia, but he's outright disdainful of online groups such as these - for example, he says what's needed is discussions on how to make systemic changes and evaluations of what's been done so far for systemic issues, looking at multiple options and allowing for healthy criticism, since he says that's what drives innovation and progress. The people who I work with in legal services for low-income women's justice likewise put down these sites for not recognizing that not everybody is up on all the academia and research and history and that these sites are actually quite classist and tend to isolate people based on that. Also, not everybody always agrees with each other or knows the same amount about different subjects, and I'm speaking intra-racially, intra-religiously and intra-genderdly (yea I just made up a bunch of terms) in addition to inter-everything, but that's not a reason to respond with snark or insults. My boyfriend and I have had our disagreements about the results of certain feminist movements, but the point is, this happens in real life, and then we usually come to agreements, or he acknowledges that he said something insensitive or inaccurate, or I acknowledge that hey, perhaps feminism can take a different approach in certain ways. I mean I'm not opposed to hearing a man's view on issues of feminism because I think it's good to hear things from outside of your own sphere of perception. Sometimes I'll disagree, sometimes I'll learn, sometimes we'll both come to new ideas altogether. But that's because we allow each other to have those discussions and don't just insult each other for it. I think intent is a huge part of this - I have friends who are genuinely intent on achieving gender equality, lowering the wealth gap, etc - but we often have different ideas on how to go about it. Finally, one of my best friends regularly does research and presentations and even publications regarding the inherent racism of NYS drug laws and the history of selective law enforcement (also pharmaceutical law and mental health law). We've worked together in research positions (albeit she has a JD and is an attorney and I'm not, so I've been the unpaid intern) and she says she never reads the comments on sites like this because they're just "infuriating" and would never comment because she thinks it would be professional death. This isn't just about "white women," this is about how the online SJ movements have often become very narrow and a ton of people aren't represented based on age, socioeconomics, and simply different backgrounds and differences of opinion, people who are just waking up to the realities of racism or feminism are shut down and it probably turns them off to the topics, and this type of polarization doesn't too much to create engagement in real life. I used to love these types of sites and think they served a great purpose, and many times they still do, but more often I'm seeing a lot of snark, insults and bullying as opposed to dialogue. I don't agree with everything written in the article above, some of it I vigorously disagree with, but I do think it opens up issues that we do need to address if we are serious about creating national or international change with regards to affecting social justice and equality. Also my "enter" button stopped working so this is all going to be one long thing instead of tiny paragraphs.
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