Women's sizes tend to be vanity sized, though, so that 20 isn't really a 20. It's likely more like a 24. This is how many of us have a wide range of numbers and sizes in our closets, because everything is sized differently
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Oh yeah I know all about 'vanity' sizes, I sew and when I got drafted in Collage to do some bridesmaid dresses I made sure to measure all the girls and get the sizes right. All were insistent they were sizes 4-8 when per their measurements they were actually in the 10-14 ranges. They all freaked out till I announced that they tags were set to cater to their egos and the size 4 now was a size 8 years ago.
And yes...so jealous about how men's clothing is in inches I KNOW my measurements dang it!
Women's clothing sizes and women's pattern sizes are totally unrelated though. It has nothing to do with vanity sizing since the two will NEVER match up. If they measured 10-14 they absolutely were 4-8 in normally-sized clothing. I'm a 6 and use 10/12.
It absolutely has to do with vanity sizing. Pattern sizes are the same as they've been since the 1970s, back when they matched ready-to-wear. Off the rack clothes have drifted since then, but patterns haven't.
But that's irrelevant if a size 12 with a 27 inch waist doesn't exist anymore, which it doesn't. A 27 inch waist off the rack is a 6. Vanity sizing today is when a size four has a 27 inch waist (which some do). Calling literally every woman in existence's practical, accurate off the rack size a vanity size just because things were different seventy years ago when the numbers assigned to a size were every bit as arbitrary anyhow is pointless and renders the term vanity sizing meaningless.
Arguing that sizing should be the way it was in the 40s when the pattern sizes were invented is especially irrelevant when the average size of a woman has changed and we've all stopped wearing girdles as everyday undergarments. And also when it's actually easier to guess what size you'll wear off the rack despite the existence of vanity sizing than it is to guess what size pattern isn't going to fit like an ugly burlap sack when you're done sewing it.
Uh, except I didn't any of those? I simply said that at one point, when they were implemented, ready to wear and sewing patterns matched because they were using the same set of measurements. The fact that they no longer do due to social pressures making ready to wear sizes drift from that number set is the very definition of vanity sizing. It's not like a 27 inch waist being a smaller size is new. That same 27 inch waist used to be an 8. Before that it was a 10. Before that a 12. It being a size 6 was not its starting point, just one stop on the slope
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men are starting to have vanity sizing too; they have those weird "styles" in the men's section now. Things like "skinny fit" "carpenter" etc-- so, my husband has to find his size in the right style or they won't fit at all.
Carpenter isn't a vanity style like skinny fit or bootleg though - it's to indicate function. (ftr: carpenter jeans are my favorite because they have a focus on pockets)
Since clearly girls couldn't wear pants for silly things like function instead of to show off their cute little pert bottom
I HAVE seen some quasi-carpenter style women's khakis but jeans are rare which is why when I worked at Target I bought only men's pants.
eta: This isn't to be like LOL NO YOU'RE WRONG but if your husband or you or anyone else ever wonders, carpenter jeans / khakis are what you want to wear for physical work. The additional pockets are a lifesaver!
right, but they FIT differently and if he put a measuring tape to them, they would be drastically different sizes. Same brand, same length, but the regulars vs the carpenter, for example in his 32x30 size, he wouldn't be able to get the regulars/skinnies up his legs.
That's not vanity sizing; it's just the fact that measurements for clothing only encompass certain things and the CUT of the garment may not be one that will fit you. Size six jeans generally have a 27 inch waist but might be cut for a girl who's got 34 inch hips and small thighs, not 37 inch hips and big thighs, even though both might generally wear the same standard size. Having drastically different cuts where a person can't go in and pick out one standard size is BETTER in many cases. My wife shops at Buckle because she's got a small waist and a lot of booty; if she goes to a store where she can just grab jeans off the rack, they'll all be ill-fitting even though she can get them on. If she goes to Buckle (where the sizing is really unpredictable even though they're all by measurement and not number) she has to try everything on but what she leaves with fits her thighs comfortably and doesn't gap in the small of the back. The difference between cuts makes things more of a pain in the ass but it also means there are more options to
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I agree, this is kind of a weird article... I think his intention was good but it was a little mansplainy.
As an aside, Banana Republic actually does inches for their women's jeans and slacks. I think they only go up to 33 or 34 in store, but here's hoping this becomes a trend because it's sooooo much easier to grab a "31" and know it's going to fit than to grab an 8, 10, and 12 because who the fuck knows which size you are at that particular store?! I, too, hate buying pants...
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Yeah, women's sizes are pretty crazy!
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And yes...so jealous about how men's clothing is in inches I KNOW my measurements dang it!
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Arguing that sizing should be the way it was in the 40s when the pattern sizes were invented is especially irrelevant when the average size of a woman has changed and we've all stopped wearing girdles as everyday undergarments. And also when it's actually easier to guess what size you'll wear off the rack despite the existence of vanity sizing than it is to guess what size pattern isn't going to fit like an ugly burlap sack when you're done sewing it.
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Since clearly girls couldn't wear pants for silly things like function instead of to show off their cute little pert bottom
I HAVE seen some quasi-carpenter style women's khakis but jeans are rare which is why when I worked at Target I bought only men's pants.
eta: This isn't to be like LOL NO YOU'RE WRONG but if your husband or you or anyone else ever wonders, carpenter jeans / khakis are what you want to wear for physical work. The additional pockets are a lifesaver!
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As an aside, Banana Republic actually does inches for their women's jeans and slacks. I think they only go up to 33 or 34 in store, but here's hoping this becomes a trend because it's sooooo much easier to grab a "31" and know it's going to fit than to grab an 8, 10, and 12 because who the fuck knows which size you are at that particular store?! I, too, hate buying pants...
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