'Out of Hand': Europe Furious Over US Spying Allegations

[lied_ohne_worte]

The newest allegations of US spying have unleashed a torrent of criticism and concern in Europe. If suspicions unearthed by SPIEGEL that the US tapped Chancellor Merkel's cell phone turn out to be true, the ramifications for trans-Atlantic ties could be immense.
Leading politicians and media commentators in Germany expressed serious concern on

Comments

[robintheshrew]

I'm surprised it took this for other countries to be sick of our shit

[omimouse]

From what I can tell, the citizens of other countries have been much less happy with their governments getting all cozy with the US. This isn't just pissing Merkel off because the fucking cell phone of the head of state of a *close ally* should be considered off limits. This is going to cost her politically, and it will likely cost her party and any other pro-American party as well.

[lied_ohne_worte]

Hm, I don't fully agree. It's not as if the Social Democrats were "anti-American". What people here were mostly annoyed with so far wasn't Merkel being pro-American, it was their incredible inactivity in disclosing in which way we as citizens had been spied on, and how the German intelligence services cooperated or did their own spying. We just didn't get any information, and it was pretended that everything had been satisfactorily resolved; Merkel is good at that.

[omimouse]

Fair enough; it's been years since I lived in Europe so my handle on the social and political climate there is kinda out of date.

From the reactions, what kind of fallout do you think is likely? Is this going to come up in the next set of elections, for example? Is it going to be a politically good idea to put some distance between Germany and the US, or does Germany really feel they've got much choice on that?

(This would be one of the many reasons that the whole idea around 'American exceptionalism' needs to die, and soon, because it leads to truly believing that we have the right to do this kind of shit.)

[lied_ohne_worte]

I don't think it will have much of an effect on the CDU. The opposition tried to do something during the federal election with the revelations we had then, and it wasn't very successful. I guess many people just think our own government, even though our intelligence services aren't exactly innocent either, just can't do anything to prevent the US from doing whatever they want

[omimouse]

I remember the privacy from the Netherlands, that people were much more guarded with their lives in certain ways that I didn't really understand, being about 11 when we moved there. It took me a while to understand that when most of the country lives in apartment buildings, it's a very needed way of coping with all the ways you don't have privacy because it's just not feasible.

Since I doubt you'll ever hear it from US officials, I apologize sincerely for the actions taken by agencies that take their orders from our elected officials, and promise to do my best to vote people who actually care about things like international relations into office.

[lied_ohne_worte]

Aww, thanks, but there's really no need for that! It looks like they're doing the same things to all of you, and it's all so incredibly secretive that it seems as if they've developed their own parallel universe that even their own population can't know of.

[lied_ohne_worte]

I suppose even our politicians didn't quite realise the degree to which rules on what one would consider acceptable behaviour doesn't seem to apply to the US government. This morning, they say that the spying post involved in spying on Merkel was apparently in the US embassy - I wonder how that's making diplomats feel about talking to the ambassador.

[danyjoncew]

It's even funnier cause they didn't seem to care when it was Brazil and Mexico (both presidents were fuming at the last G20 summit and Brazil's president opened the last UN General Assembly strongly criticizing the NSA, cancelled her state reception to the White House). I'm curious to see if this is actually going anywhere now that it's rich countries.

[lied_ohne_worte]

Mhm, I remember that, and it's why I'm not really surprised at this new thing coming out. I think the more EU countries get together on it, the greater the impact, and I also read just this morning that Germany and Brazil have been working together on a UN initiative regarding communication security.

Personally, I'd like to see my government evict the whole US embassy including the ambassador, particularly as it seems they did the spying from embassy grounds, but of course US global influence means that they can just keep walking over us in the name of "freedom" and "democracy" and "security", all of which claims are starting to look more ridiculous by the day.

[danyjoncew]

I read that too. And historically when you give space and influence to Brazilian diplomats inside the UN, they get shit done. In pragmatic and subtle ways that may not please everybody, but when you read behind the scenes stuff they get a surprising lot of shit done there. If our politicians were 10% as committed and competent as our diplomats, this country would be liiight years ahead D=.

So when you have a country as important as Germany teaming up with them, I think it's really meaningful and it could be the start of something, as long as at least European and Latin American countries support them with political weight. Alone they are countries throwing fits, together they are undeniable. Angela Merkel did sound more serious this time around. But, like you said, it's the US, nobody actually wants to be on their bad side (and who knows what kind of spying everybody else performs)... Ugh, I'm just curious now.

PS: regarding your other reply to me, holy shit, 16 years is a LONG time ahahah!

[lied_ohne_worte]

No term limits, heh.

I was born in 81, so he just was always Chancellor until I was almost old enough to vote myself.