I'm on board for this. I have to show ID to buy cigarettes, booze, porn and drive. Even when I use my unsigned ATM card at the supermarket they have to make sure that I am who I say I am. It is a ubiquitous part of modern life. Having to show it to vote seems a small thing. Establish a non-driver's photo ID, offer subsidies to the very poor and call it a day.
Eliminating same-day voter registration
If same-day registration in NC means that you then vote normally, then I am for its elimination. There is too much opportunity for abuse. If the same-day registration means you cast a provisional vote which is approved after your registration is vetted, then I am against its elimination. Giving people who have recently moved or who recently decided to vote a chance to do so quickly and easily seems like a no-brainer.
Cutting early voting
I hate early voting. I have come to mistrust even absentee voting. The reason we vote on one day is that the campaign should last until the vote is taken. Until the vote you have an opportunity to change your mind, events can unfold that could influence your vote in the last month, week or day and if you've already voted... oops! Too bad! It encourages an unthinking, mindless herding of party zombies into polling places, casting their thoughtless votes to the plaudits of their masters. If we think we need more time to vote, I'd rather have a weekend, two day vote. Give it a full 52 hours and then call it done.
You know part of why early voting was allowed was because, get this, some people have to WORK on election day? And as for weekends, guess what? Some people have to work weekends, both days, too!
And go on, tell me about this "abuse" from same-day registration and voting. This will be good.
You know what? I don't care. I have to work, I work a lot, 12-15 hours isn't unusual. Even on election day. You know what I do? I organize my day so I get to the polls early, cast my vote and then have the day to myself. Its called responsibility. I think the idea of expanding the vote to a full weekend is more than generous. It strikes a balance. If you can't be bothered to find an hour or so out of a 3 day weekend to go and vote, you can't be bothered to vote. It isn't like election days are sprung on you out of the blue with no notice. They aren't a pop quiz.
If you can't figure out a way to game same-day registration, then I feel sorry for you. As I said, if it is a provisional ballot that will be counted after the registration is verified, then I have no problem with it. In fact, I think it is a good thing.
Yeah, tell that to all the black and brown people in the last election who had to work a full day and THEN wait hours and hours in line because the racists who controlled the states they were voting in didn't properly staff the polling places in their neighborhoods to handle the turnout. Of course, they waited until they could vote, sometimes until the early hours of the morning, because they were not going to let anyone tell them they couldn't vote. With this bill, they won't be able to even do that, because the polls will be closed no matter what.
No, no, I REALLY want to hear about how YOU think people are "gaming" the same-day registration.
Plus, you know, proof that it happens. Give me ACTUAL occurrences, not just theoreticals. Show me how you THINK people are gaming the system.
Like I said: this will be good.
Also, good for you, you have the flexibility to "organize" your day and a polling place that doesn't have jacked-up waiting times like the ones in most poor and black areas. Unfortunately, YOUR circumstances are not a universal.
If everyone was able to get to their polling place and vote within an hour or two of getting in line you might have a point. That isn't the case in many voting precincts.
If you can't be bothered to find an hour or so out of a 3 day weekend to go and vote,
Except in a lot of places, it's a lot more than just one hour. During the 2012 election, you had people in Florida waiting up to seven to eight hours to vote.
And with the current changes to voting rights, Florida won't be the only one doing that, Texas, North Carolina, and other Southern states are going out of their way to ensure that voting in college-populated districts, and non-white dominant districts is much more difficult and time consuming.
I just finished a five year stint without a valid state ID purely because I was too poor. I had no car in 2008 and was unable to walk 18 miles to the nearest DMV to get a new ID. One year later, even doing that would have been a waste of time since my ID had been expired long enough that the DMV demanded a birth certificate in order to give me a new one. I could not get a copy of my birth certificate without a valid ID, which DMV refused to provide. It took five fucking years to fix this.
Having an ID is not "a ubiquitous part of modern life". It is a privilege for those who have the time, money, and paperwork to get an ID in the first place. If you're short even one of those three things, you will not be able to obtain such a "ubiquitous" thing.
If voting is a right enshrined by the US constitution, then demanding ID is equivalent to a poll tax and as such is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, as precedented by Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections (1966).
This person genuinely seems to think their situation is a universal for everyone and doesn't see at all how these are hardships for other people - just them being irresponsible or having bad organizational skills. Sheesh.
They really do seem to think that. I held similar views when I was a teenager, at least concerning state IDs. Becoming an adult and dealing with real adult concerns changed my views fast. You can't just wave a magic wand and suddenly have the time and money you didn't have before.
Having an ID is not "a ubiquitous part of modern life".
Like I said, if you are going to have Voter ID you have to have a simple state photo ID that is free or nearly free, which can be used in lieu of a driver's licence.
It took five fucking years to fix this.
How did you end up getting around the Catch-22 you found yourself in? I mean, even without an ID law you'd still need to prove who you were in order to register to vote. A general argument against voter ID laws is that it is redundant. If the person has registered, they have by definition proven they have a right to vote in a given district. Do you also oppose voter registration? I remember when I registered I had to show a photo ID, bring a birth certificate and at least two utility bills. If you are looking for a bar to voting that is where you should start, frankly. If you can register, you should be able to summon the will to get a photo ID. Heck, make it part of the process, with your registration you get a ID.
If you had asked me, btw, I would have advised you to call your state representative or senator when you were in your ID pickle. They have people whose job is just cutting through red tape for constituents in predicaments like yours, people who could steer you to the right services and make them work for you. When I had a issue with my landlord, back in the day, I called my congressman and his office basically solved my problems within a day. In case you are wondering, then as now, I am absolutely nobody. Being a constituent, and a potential vote, is a powerful thing, don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise.
If voting is a right enshrined by the US constitution
Voting is the most mentioned right in the Constitution, actually. However, it is always in the context of defining eligibility to vote. Voting, unlike the right to conscience, speech, assembly, etc, is available only to those allowed to vote under the law. That is why we needed new amendments to extend the vote to former slaves, women, the poor, etc. Non-citizens can't vote, even though in the US they have a right to speak freely and worship as they please. A convicted felon can't vote, even though they enjoy 4th and 5th amendment rights even while in prison. A citizen under 18 can't vote, although they can claim many other rights. So.. it isn't cut and dried.
I don't think you needed your name on them. They just had to be the same address as your ID. I think I took my parent's bill. It was a long time ago. I assume it was their way of insuring that I lived at the address I claimed.
I was curious, and looked up my state's rules (Michigan).
(these are the mail in instructions)
Send a copy of one of the following forms of identification with your application:
A photocopy of your driver's license or personal ID card, or A photocopy of a paycheck stub, utility bill, bank document or government document that lists both your name and your address.
We are asked for photo ID when we vote, but if a person does not have an ID or forgot (my polling place is in my neighborhood, I forgot once because I had walked up there and didnt think to grab my wallet), the can sign an affidavit and still be allowed to vote.
NJ doesn't ask for any ID. I just walk in say my name, sign on the dotted line below my name on the register and go vote. I live in a small town and almost always know someone at the poll, so chicanery would be difficult, but that isn't the case everywhere.
I'm on board for this. I have to show ID to buy cigarettes, booze, porn and drive. Even when I use my unsigned ATM card at the supermarket they have to make sure that I am who I say I am. It is a ubiquitous part of modern life. Having to show it to vote seems a small thing. Establish a non-driver's photo ID, offer subsidies to the very poor and call it a day.
Eliminating same-day voter registration
If same-day registration in NC means that you then vote normally, then I am for its elimination. There is too much opportunity for abuse. If the same-day registration means you cast a provisional vote which is approved after your registration is vetted, then I am against its elimination. Giving people who have recently moved or who recently decided to vote a chance to do so quickly and easily seems like a no-brainer.
Cutting early voting
I hate early voting. I have come to mistrust even absentee voting. The reason we vote on one day is that the campaign should last until the vote is taken. Until the vote you have an opportunity to change your mind, events can unfold that could influence your vote in the last month, week or day and if you've already voted... oops! Too bad! It encourages an unthinking, mindless herding of party zombies into polling places, casting their thoughtless votes to the plaudits of their masters. If we think we need more time to vote, I'd rather have a weekend, two day vote. Give it a full 52 hours and then call it done.
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And go on, tell me about this "abuse" from same-day registration and voting. This will be good.
Reply
If you can't figure out a way to game same-day registration, then I feel sorry for you. As I said, if it is a provisional ballot that will be counted after the registration is verified, then I have no problem with it. In fact, I think it is a good thing.
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Plus, you know, proof that it happens. Give me ACTUAL occurrences, not just theoreticals. Show me how you THINK people are gaming the system.
Like I said: this will be good.
Also, good for you, you have the flexibility to "organize" your day and a polling place that doesn't have jacked-up waiting times like the ones in most poor and black areas. Unfortunately, YOUR circumstances are not a universal.
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Except in a lot of places, it's a lot more than just one hour. During the 2012 election, you had people in Florida waiting up to seven to eight hours to vote.
And with the current changes to voting rights, Florida won't be the only one doing that, Texas, North Carolina, and other Southern states are going out of their way to ensure that voting in college-populated districts, and non-white dominant districts is much more difficult and time consuming.
Reply
Reply
Having an ID is not "a ubiquitous part of modern life". It is a privilege for those who have the time, money, and paperwork to get an ID in the first place. If you're short even one of those three things, you will not be able to obtain such a "ubiquitous" thing.
If voting is a right enshrined by the US constitution, then demanding ID is equivalent to a poll tax and as such is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, as precedented by Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections (1966).
Reply
Reply
Reply
Like I said, if you are going to have Voter ID you have to have a simple state photo ID that is free or nearly free, which can be used in lieu of a driver's licence.
It took five fucking years to fix this.
How did you end up getting around the Catch-22 you found yourself in? I mean, even without an ID law you'd still need to prove who you were in order to register to vote. A general argument against voter ID laws is that it is redundant. If the person has registered, they have by definition proven they have a right to vote in a given district. Do you also oppose voter registration? I remember when I registered I had to show a photo ID, bring a birth certificate and at least two utility bills. If you are looking for a bar to voting that is where you should start, frankly. If you can register, you should be able to summon the will to get a photo ID. Heck, make it part of the process, with your registration you get a ID.
If you had asked me, btw, I would have advised you to call your state representative or senator when you were in your ID pickle. They have people whose job is just cutting through red tape for constituents in predicaments like yours, people who could steer you to the right services and make them work for you. When I had a issue with my landlord, back in the day, I called my congressman and his office basically solved my problems within a day. In case you are wondering, then as now, I am absolutely nobody. Being a constituent, and a potential vote, is a powerful thing, don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise.
If voting is a right enshrined by the US constitution
Voting is the most mentioned right in the Constitution, actually. However, it is always in the context of defining eligibility to vote. Voting, unlike the right to conscience, speech, assembly, etc, is available only to those allowed to vote under the law. That is why we needed new amendments to extend the vote to former slaves, women, the poor, etc. Non-citizens can't vote, even though in the US they have a right to speak freely and worship as they please. A convicted felon can't vote, even though they enjoy 4th and 5th amendment rights even while in prison. A citizen under 18 can't vote, although they can claim many other rights. So.. it isn't cut and dried.
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How does your state register younger voters? the average 18 year old probably isn't going to have any utility bills with their names on them
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(these are the mail in instructions)
Send a copy of one of the following forms of identification with your application:
A photocopy of your driver's license or personal ID card, or
A photocopy of a paycheck stub, utility bill, bank document or government document that lists both your name and your address.
We are asked for photo ID when we vote, but if a person does not have an ID or forgot (my polling place is in my neighborhood, I forgot once because I had walked up there and didnt think to grab my wallet), the can sign an affidavit and still be allowed to vote.
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http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Licenses/DocumentSelector/index.htm
NJ doesn't ask for any ID. I just walk in say my name, sign on the dotted line below my name on the register and go vote. I live in a small town and almost always know someone at the poll, so chicanery would be difficult, but that isn't the case everywhere.
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