The controversy around Zero Dark Thirty: As misleading as the film itself

[aviv]

Both treat torture at secret CIA prisons as if it were a thing of the past, masking the reality of an enduring practice.

The controversy surrounding Zero Dark Thirty has been as misguided as the film itself, which opened nationwide on Friday. Much of the debate has centred on whether Hurt Locker director Kathryn Bigelow's latest opus leaves

Comments

[soleiltropiques]

This is a very interesting piece. Thank you so much for posting this -it was very informative.

Also, there is no justification for torture. None. Nada. Period.

[blackjedii]

Seriously y'all. Not that I wish he was alive and well to direct awful things or anything but

Why is there a movie about killing bin Laden?

Not the least of which is that I don't glorify death (outside of goofy silly video game / etc. FINISH HIM!!!) in any kind but a fictional movie based off of a Real Thing that shows how the military operates, might use real names of people who are probably marked for death for the rest of their life, it just makes me really really uncomfortable

[eveofrevolution]

[jwaneeta]

It doesn't glorify anything, though. There's not an ounce of FUCK YEAH in it.

[kishmet]

I feel the same way. The movie made me super uncomfortable by the sound of it (I'd never watch any film depicting torture, especially torture that, you know, actually happened and is happening) and reading this strengthened my distaste.

It's an American thing though. Not just American but a lot of people in the US do have a taste for 'justified' revenge, hence a lot of the torture porn revenge films that basically let viewers enjoy that stuff guilt-free. Idk I don't see how that's entertaining and Zero Dark Thirty seems to take it to a new horrible level

[jwaneeta]

Wow. I saw it, and

1) Did not think it portrayed torture as effective, at all

and

2) I can see where this dude is coming from, being a lawyer for a detainees, but... the feelings of the torturers weren't really a huge issue either. That's wasn't, in my opinion, what the movie was about.

[soleiltropiques]

Interesting. What did you feel it was about?

(I'm not trying to be contrary or devil's advocate BTW, I'm just curious, as I am not familiar with Bigelow's work.)

[squeeful]

Bigelow's work tends to focus more on the idea that violence, without the context of the genre tropes, is unsatisfying and has no meaning, that violence shouldn't be the orgasmic resolution to a story (or real actions), that violence changes people and creates more violence, and challenges the idea that violence is empowering. She makes action genre films that flip, challenge, and depower the constructs of the genre. The Hurt Locker is as much a critique of war films as it is a war film. I would imagine similar themes are present in Zero Dark Thirty. I'd be interested in seeing where she's gone this time with the construct of violence = power = masculinity and whether she's saying, like I think she is, that the audience, as the American public, is complicit in the torture and that it has changed them/us as it has changed the people who have done the physical/mental torture

[soleiltropiques]

Interesting, and thank you for your very informative and interesting response.

What you say makes me curious to see the film, tbh.

[squeeful]

the critical, questioning perspective that defines art

You, sir, fail art. Fail so hard, your fail, fails.

Obviously, I'm going to have to wait until after I see it, but having watched the rest of Bigelow's work, I'm going to have to say that it is highly unlikely that it is simply torture porn. Incredibly violent, yes; simple, no.

[jwaneeta]

I've seen it, and the phrase "torture porn" is confounding me. I .. did ..... did me and this guy even watch the same movie?

[romp]

I don't think you're wrong but I'm going to guess torture is unable to be in any form of entertainment for him, given all the stories he must have heard and the results he's seen. It sounds like any depiction of torture is abhorrent to him. I'm squicked by torture so I'll likely skip this film but I don't think it's comparable to Saw.

[ntensity]

This was written by a law professor, I'm certain he failed art and probably math as well. Us lawyers are useless at this shit. ;)

(saying this jokingly, but I totally agree with your point here)

[awfulbliss]

I honestly have no idea how someone could watch the film and come to some of these conclusions. It is a procedural film about intelligence gathering during a war. Torture was part of that, whether it was effective or not. How exactly is it "torture porn" to depict torture in a film about CIA procedure during a war? It happened, there's nothing we can do to change that. I don't think the film approaches anything close to an "endorsement" and simply am at a loss that anyone could really think that. I thought it was quite ambiguous (not that much different than conflicting reports from Panetta and others) and to me, it's not a filmmaker's job to do some of the things asked for in the column. G. Roger Denson's columns on ZDT have been excellent.

[ms_mmelissa]

G. Roger Denson's columns on ZDT have been excellent.

Do you have a link?

[awfulbliss]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/g-roger-denson/zero-dark-thirty-defendin_b_2357702.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/g-roger-denson/zero-dark-thirty-torture-scenes_b_2379609.html?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/g-roger-denson/zero-dark-thirtys-kathryn_b_2416487.html

[ms_mmelissa]

Thanks!