Judge Finds California Boy Responsible in the Killing of His Neo-Nazi Father

[chaya]

RIVERSIDE, Calif. - The young son of a neo-Nazi knew right from wrong when he shot and killed his father, and he is therefore responsible for second-degree murder, a judge ruled on Monday. Joseph Hall was 10 years old when he shot his sleeping father in the head in 2011. Now 12, he could be held in state custody until age 23

Comments

[natyanayaki]

This is just so sad, trained to hate, abused for years, is this outcome really surprising? Will he get treatment? Will he get help, or will he be "jailed" and released as angry, as resentful, as hateful, as lacking coping skills as he is now? That the people who raised him, and abused him (I find it hard to believe that his father was the only one responsible) might not be punished is heart-wrenching. And I wonder, is knowing what's wrong the same as understanding what's wrong? Is knowing something might be illegal the same thing as knowing what's wrong?

[wikilobbying]

i have a lot of the same concerns. like, if he ends up in state custody, what does that mean, what's going to happen? i mean after being subjected to, learning, and inflicting that kind of violence at such a young age, how do they plan on taking care of him?

[darth_eldritch]

This.

If he ends up in the system, and spends time in jail, he's going to end up joining the Aryan brotherhood, or some other racist gang in the prisons because that's the only family type of group he knows.

[teacup_werewolf]

Exactly my thoughts. In fact the first thing that came to my mine was "Well, looks like the Aryan Brotherhood has a new sheep in their flock." Which is sad because he had so much potential wasted.

[darth_eldritch]

It is very sad.

I wonder how many people will even care.

[idemandjustice]

That's just what I was thinking, too. Prison is just going to reinforce this fucked up upbringing he was subjected to.

[darth_eldritch]

I wish more people would watch or read Sleepers, to understand what happens to kids even in juvenile detention. Combine that with the Aryan brotherhood in the prisons you will have a hardened neo nazi coming out of it if this kid ends up in the system.

[idemandjustice]

I'd just been thinking about what I'd seen of Lockup. I think that was the name of the documentary series that visited various prisons, mostly around the US, but they did occasionally visit other parts of the world. Pretty horrifying stuff.

[darth_eldritch]

It is. I've seen the inside of a juvenile detention center. Pretty depressing place and that was a low security place. Prison is only that much worse.

[wikilobbying]

that's part of what i worry about. if the track he gets put on isn't based in real recovery and reform, then in or out of prison there's a high chance of him eventually joining an actively violent racist group, which means that (again, in or out of prison) he will very much most likely end up killing or nearly killing at least one other person. it's about this child, and the man he could grow up to be, but it's also about cycles of violence and how they end up inflicted on more people.

[darth_eldritch]

Exactly. I feel the same about any other child in similiar situations that expose them to violence, regardless of their backgrounds.

A good part of this instance is to keep him from committing the sort of crimes that he was taught are acceptable. It is a cycle of violence.

[natyanayaki]

Exactly. I feel like, given all the circumstances (at least what I know), it's more important to treat and help him than it is to punish him. I know this is too emotional, really irrational, but I can't help but feel like this shouldn't have happen. He shouldn't have been raised in such an environment, maybe he's a psychopath and killings were his destiny (I don't believe in destiny, and I'm not sure that I believe in psychopaths as much as I do sociopaths either), but...maybe this is because I'm from California (not Riverside)...but I feel this weight, this sadness that he wasn't saved from the environment before it got to this. With a Neo-Nazi father, did the child do as he was taught to do? Even ignoring the abuse, if a child -especially a young child- is trained to be violent, can we (meaning everyone but especially the people who trained the child in hate) really be surprised? I know that there's a lot of evidence that our morality is instinctual, based on our primate-ness, but still...if what we're taught goes against what

[lickety_split]

how do they plan on taking care of him?

They don't.

[wikilobbying]

in which case, he most likely grows up to become more hardened, more violent, and probably becomes associated with a neo-nazi group and continues the cycle of violence by abusing and murdering other people. like, even trying to help him with recovery and reform would be so difficult because he learned what hate felt like and how violence could be carried out at such a young age, but if they don't even bother - sometimes it's hard not to think that the system prefers to make things worse.

[lickety_split]

There are a lot of different reasons the justice system nurtures people into being career criminals, but the root of the problem is that California is strapped for cash and resources, and getting extra help for criminals is really low on the priority list (even though reducing crime and poverty would reduce expenses on, like, everything). Kids might get a little help if they're not THAT bad (and by "help", I mean, get a GED and some group talks with a former gang member), but the others are thrown in with the adults and forgotten about

[kreine]

in theory, for California our juvenile detention centers are supposed to reform youths.
adult prison is punitive with no legislative responsibility beyond that, but kids are supposed to get access and opportunity to heal/grow beyond their actions

but I don't know if that's how it works out in practice...