'Hollywood Holocaust' apology published by paper.

[atomic_joe2]

The son of Hollywood Reporter founder Billy Wilkerson has apologised for the trade paper's role in the 1940s witch-hunts that saw many in the industry ostracised for having communist ties.

The actors, writers and directors on the so-called 'blacklist' suffered huge damage to their careers as a result.

Comments

[the_physicist]

Agreed all that had nothing to do with communism.

And communism does not = Stalin.

I'm not sure what country you are from, I'm sorry. But to me at least, well, it kind of does though. Not Marx's original ideas, but what communism actually was? that was fucking reprehensible in almost every country (not saying the West doesn't have its share of atrocities it committed as democracies, don't misunderstand me!)

Sure, some countries allowed you to leave, like Yugoslavia, go to the West on holiday. Others shot you dead though if you tried to cross the border. The majority were not nice. And to have communism always refer to the ideal that Marx wanted is tragic because it makes history be ignored. Many communist countries haven't dealt with their past, they didn't have the kind of Nuerenberger trials that West Germany had.

I understand that there are issues with US Americans seeing things too black and white (or red and white?!), but i don't feel it's a good thing to try and insist towards communism not referring to actual RL and historical communism, and instead Marx's ideas.

(i just see that someone says the person in this thread is a well-known troll though, lol, so i can also see you probably have a more wide reaching opinion on this, but don't want to waste time typing it up for this person).

[fishphile]

Not Marx's original ideas, but what communism actually was?

And, really, that's the problem I have with Marx. His work leaves too much room for interpretation, especially when it comes down to how long the dictatorship of the proletariat would be in power before withering away. What communism has historically been is not necessarily Marxism, but because it's so open ended, it's not necessarily against what Marxism is either.

Also, I don't think this poster is a troll.

[the_physicist]

Also, I don't think this poster is a troll.

Okay, thanks for clarifying! I just saw zinnea_rose's post before it had been replied to.

And, really, that's the problem I have with Marx. His work leaves too much room for interpretation, especially when it comes down to how long the dictatorship of the proletariat would be in power before withering away. What communism has historically been is not necessarily Marxism, but because it's so open ended, it's not necessarily against what Marxism is either.

I think Marx was too idealistic in his assessment of human nature. I'm not even saying he had the wrong idea at all about a fair few things. But what communist states were like was very, very far removed from Marx's ideal state.

[fishphile]

I think Marx was too idealistic in his assessment of human nature.

I do too. It's clear he was optimistic about people using the best of their qualities to implement his work instead of the worst. A lot of his ideas are sound and I think they can be used to benefit mankind, but it doesn't seem like any communist state to this point has implemented his ideas (or their interpretation of his ideas) without harm to others.

[the_physicist]

yeah, not sure any actually really implemented any of his actual ideas... there were a lot of idealistic people who got taken advantage of.

[fishphile]

And that's why I think Marxism is too vague because I think there is a sound argument that can be made that people really did implement them.

[the_physicist]

i haven't seen those arguments, but i guess he wrote so much, and it can be interpreted in different ways, that yeah, that probably is true...

[romp]

I appreciate your POV and I agree that the way communism has played out matters. I'm coming from the opposite direction however in that I grew up hearing communism = evil so I was amazed to find out Russia had been allied with, well, the Allies in WWII and that intelligent, good people had been members of the Communist Party in Europe and North America. I think my experience is similar to most USers on this topic.

[the_physicist]

i agree that a balanced account of history is very important here.

i guess in educating those who's education was seeped too much in anti-communist propaganda, it's still important to not swing too far in the other direction, though. especially online, where not everyone is from the US background.

and of course the poster you were replying too was not one subjected to US propaganda against their country.

tl;dr i find that it is problematic to tell people who have suffered from communism that communism =/= Stalin. he might have been one of the worst, but he was not the only one who committed terrible atrocities. What about Romania's brutal regime? The kids shot or killed by the land mines for trying to leave East Berlin? the list can go on.

[nadejda]

they calling me a troll just because my opinion again not the same as theirs.

About Marx ideas- there were idealistic at best- it like the City of the Sun by Campanella- it's utopia based on the idea that all people are saint.