So far there's only been about a page or two in total of Harry angsting away, and so far I didn't find it nearly as annoying as I did the first time around. Maybe knowing what JKR was going for, that Harry's supposed to be going through his angry teen phase made all the worse by the fact that he has things to actually be angry about, made it more interesting.
I loved the scenes at the Dursleys. The family finally has some sort of dynamic that seems real and plausible. I love the focus on Petunia and how she's Lily's sister and knows things about the wizarding world. There's a moment when Harry mentions how his lives spilled over with magic all over Privet Drive, etc. Usually the opening scenes are fairly dull and it's just Harry waiting around being miserable before he can go to school or the Burrow or something. And everything we need to know about magic and Harry's life gets repeated, in case we had forgotten somehow. This time we skip all that and it's far more interesting.
Also: Lupin. 'Harry's heart leapt'. Mine too, Harry, no worries.
i don't really think it was supposed to be an angry teen phase so much as harry having PTSD. he just witnessed someone being murdered. and then not only that, but he was then locked away for a month or two in a house full of ppl who didn't like him, with absolutely no information about voldemort. a lot of people make this same argument that he was just being annoying but it...very clearly seemed like he had PTSD to me? given everything he's been through i think he should be allowed to be angry.
i really the opening of ootp, too. petunia is always a character that's interested me very much so it was really interesting to see her reaction to the dementors + the letter. i've always liked the throwaway line from harry about how this is the first time he can truly appreciate petunia being lily's sister or something.
I did mention he actually had things to be angry and upset about. I don't know if he had PTSD, but then I'm not a psychologist. He's definitely affected and traumatized by it, but from what I know PTSD is pretty specific. Anyway, I suppose I wasn't clear in my original comment, but I did mean to say that I think it's a combination of both. His experiences at the graveyard (and how he was left alone to deal with them) *on top of* the usual teenage angst. Or I suppose the trauma could have been a catalyst and brought up all the other stuff he'd been holding in as well.
All I know is that knowing there is some point to all of it makes it more tolerable (for now, at least).
that is true tho, i don't think his hormones were doing him any favors that year, either. i think it's moreso your last sentence, though. harry's always come off as pretty emotionally closed off to me. but i'm not a psychologist either, so idk. but he really doesn't seem to know what to do with his emotions especially when he's angry, lol.
but yeah, ootp harry has always been one of my faves (well, ootp in general is). i was surprised when i discovered that most people thought harry was the most insufferable in that book.
I think part of it is because in OotP you notice him more as a character in his own right. Usually he's just the one we as readers experience everything through and *his* feelings/thoughts/wants aren't that noticeable. This time there is a lot of focus exactly on him as a person, not as a vessel for the story. Obviously this is a good thing, except that it's unfortunate he's going through such a rough time right when it happens.
As for why people dislike this Harry, I think it's because they're perhaps not completely caught up in his feelings. Intellectually, I understand he must be having an unbelievably difficult time, but I don't really get carried away by his emotions. That means when he makes a bad decision or says stupid things because of those emotions, it's hard not to get annoyed.
those are very good points. people usually like when their characters are human, but not when they become too human and lash out etc. even if it's understandable.
I always thought Harry had PSTD myself. The anger, and the nightmares of Cedric's death brought it to mind. Even so, I guess, while a good excuse for his behavior, people still find it hard to read. Just like in real life when someone we love is upset: we might know the reason why and it may be perfectly legit, but it's still hard to stand them in that state.
I'm fine with Harry's attitude, but I guess that partly explains the majority that aren't? That and I assume when many people read Order for the first time they were either teens themselves, or parents of teens, and the material hit WAY too close to home, lol
That's interesting that you bring up the theory that it might be too familiar for teenagers or people dealing with teenagers. I definitely wasn't a teenager and I don't know any, and I thought maybe I couldn't empathize enough to appreciate the book because of it. But then, I wasn't exactly emotionally healthy either, so maybe it did hit too close? I'm definitely curious now to see how I experience the rest of the book.
I was 15 in 2003 when the book was released, so same age as Harry. However, I didn't read OotP until 2009, when I was 21. At that point, I wanted to hug him more than hit him lol. Also, I read the series for the first time when all the books were already out. Original fans had to wait THREE years between 4 and 5, and I can only imagine the theories, and fanfiction that people came out with. So when they actually got their hands on book 5, they felt Harry and several others weren't acting as they wanted or expected so that probably enraged some readers further.
GoF and the events of the graveyard were also very fresh in my mind seeing as how I had all of the books on hand to immediately continue on. Maybe if I would have had to have waited three years my thoughts about the story and Harry's behavior would have been different. I'll never know.
I had a similar experience, but a different reaction. I didn't read the series until the beginning of 2011 and I was 26 at the time. I had flown through the previous four books, but this one I struggled with. It was a combination of factors, definitely not just the way Harry behaves.
To be honest, I don't think I loved Harry as a character on his own until I had read some fanfiction where he wasn't the main POV. Before that, he really was mostly a window into the story for me. So anytime there was focus on his inner turmoil or an emotional outburst, I'm ashamed to say I often felt he was holding up the story. I'm really looking forward to this re-read because I'm not reading for the story anymore, because I already know what happens. So I might be able to appreciate his angst this time.
it's a shame that the polls get thousands of comments and these chapter discussions get a couple dozen, because I love these conversations so much. I've analyzed theses books a billion times and you guys are coming up with stuff that has never even occurred to me.
it's bc the polls are basically FFAs, they're typically ot and we just use them to talk to each other. sometimes we do talk about hp (like today for example, the first three pages we were really only talking about hp) but it's typically ot for the most part. we know that irks some members which is why we still have these posts (and the discussion posts that are supposed to be weekly, but some members forget to submit their posts) to fulfill hp discussion needs.
I loved the scenes at the Dursleys. The family finally has some sort of dynamic that seems real and plausible. I love the focus on Petunia and how she's Lily's sister and knows things about the wizarding world. There's a moment when Harry mentions how his lives spilled over with magic all over Privet Drive, etc. Usually the opening scenes are fairly dull and it's just Harry waiting around being miserable before he can go to school or the Burrow or something. And everything we need to know about magic and Harry's life gets repeated, in case we had forgotten somehow. This time we skip all that and it's far more interesting.
Also: Lupin. 'Harry's heart leapt'. Mine too, Harry, no worries.
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i really the opening of ootp, too. petunia is always a character that's interested me very much so it was really interesting to see her reaction to the dementors + the letter. i've always liked the throwaway line from harry about how this is the first time he can truly appreciate petunia being lily's sister or something.
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All I know is that knowing there is some point to all of it makes it more tolerable (for now, at least).
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but yeah, ootp harry has always been one of my faves (well, ootp in general is). i was surprised when i discovered that most people thought harry was the most insufferable in that book.
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As for why people dislike this Harry, I think it's because they're perhaps not completely caught up in his feelings. Intellectually, I understand he must be having an unbelievably difficult time, but I don't really get carried away by his emotions. That means when he makes a bad decision or says stupid things because of those emotions, it's hard not to get annoyed.
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I'm fine with Harry's attitude, but I guess that partly explains the majority that aren't? That and I assume when many people read Order for the first time they were either teens themselves, or parents of teens, and the material hit WAY too close to home, lol
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GoF and the events of the graveyard were also very fresh in my mind seeing as how I had all of the books on hand to immediately continue on. Maybe if I would have had to have waited three years my thoughts about the story and Harry's behavior would have been different. I'll never know.
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To be honest, I don't think I loved Harry as a character on his own until I had read some fanfiction where he wasn't the main POV. Before that, he really was mostly a window into the story for me. So anytime there was focus on his inner turmoil or an emotional outburst, I'm ashamed to say I often felt he was holding up the story. I'm really looking forward to this re-read because I'm not reading for the story anymore, because I already know what happens. So I might be able to appreciate his angst this time.
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but I also haven't had time to contribute to meta posts much/the comm in general lately so give the people what they want, etc
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