basti i think u need to hook up with queen sarah again

[blackjedii]

So apparently Ana Ivanovic had a costume party and various Bayern boys attended.
It was Wild West themed. What could go wrong?

Comments

[moonlitpie]

Ugh, this whole thing was a mess. Basti and his Lone Ranger costume, Pepe dressed up in a stereotypical warrior/Indian outfit complete with red paint all over his face, and a bunch of the women dressed up in those "sexy Indian" costumes. I'm just so over this kind of stuff. I do get that most Europeans are ignorant about this kind of stuff and don't know that it's wrong, but it's still gross and offensive. I just wish more was done to raise awareness about this kind of stuff, both here in America and over in Europe.

I also couldn't deal with Tumblr yesterday. All the people whining about how it was just a costume and how people were just trying to start drama over nothing. And all the Germans who were screaming about how "we don't know it's offensive/racist, therefore it isn't offensive/racist". I get it, I really do. I'm German and used to live there, and I know it's not taught over there. But just because you didn't intend to do something offensive/ignorant/racist doesn't mean it isn't offensive/ignorant/racist. I have a ton of family who do stuff like this all the time and then go "well, I didn't know it was racist, so what I did can't be racist". They just don't seem to get it, and it's so frustrating to me.

[jenny_jenkins]

On the other hand, the "'Murricans" on Tumblr have to stop assuming Germans will know their history.

I realize we live in a "'Murrica"-central-cultural sort of space of which Tumblr is one of the great offenders. But assuming that because it's American, or American history, it will be known by default is also...not okay, actually.

That may be the least level of not-okay about this. But it is one.

As a German in Canada, having Americans lecturing others when they know NOTHING about anything outside their own country is just a part of life (George W Bush didn't even know what the PM's name was and felt entirely qualified to talk about Free Trade, for example). And it's a seriously irritating part of it.

[lied_ohne_worte]

This.

I do see why it's offensive, and that fact should definitely be pointed out.

At the same time, people in the English-speaking internet like to assume that everyone in the world, or at least people in so-called "Western" countries, shares the US frame of reference for any societal or historical matter you want to pick, and that is somewhat difficult. There are plenty of things to do/say that are highly offensive or at least very dubious if you do them in German/Germany, that the average American probably doesn't know about (or in many cases feels any need to educate themselves on).

I mean, I've seen people who were descended from German emigrants to the US who were stating their "pride" in their "German heritage". If a German does that, I'm going to assume they're a Nazi. Or in the area of religion - in Germany, being a member of one of the two large Christian churches does not at all conflict with "believing" in evolution. I've had discussions with US atheists online who really couldn't accept the fact that their fundamentalist Evangelicals aren't the default.

Again, I realise that that sort of costume is offensive, and I wouldn't do it. But I have a higher-than-average education or awareness of foreign cultures, including the US one, which is foreign to us, than the average German. So, by all means the offensiveness should be pointed out, as people have a right to be offended, but people also shouldn't necessary assume that everywhere in the world is a clone of the US, and that this particular issue up to now has had a place in German public consciousness that's even remotely close to how it is in the US. Germans in particular have a remarkable number of past and present crimes and misdeeds we must be educated about, including many people who were actually killed by our own direct ancestor generations.

[jenny_jenkins]

Beautifully expressed.

[lied_ohne_worte]

*blushes*

It's a bit TL;DR, but I think one has to be very clear in discussing these things, as it's quite easy to say something very stupid and cause a lot of offense and/or end up in one of the LJ meta comms that point out people being stupid.

[mrsvixen]

OMG. This. A billion times this! Well said.

[annoyanni]

MTE! As a European who spends a lot of time on tumblr and ONTD I see that kind of America-centric behaviour all the time, and to be honest it really gets on my nerves sometimes. I don't want to generalise, but many Americans on the internet just assume that everyone else knows their history and shares their opinions. That's why every race post on ONTD, for example, ends up being a huge mess because race, among other things, is viewed very differently in Europe and elsewhere in the world than in the U.S.

I mean, I know that blackface and redface are very offensive, but that's only because I've had the initiative to search for information and educate myself. I can guarantee that a basic Finnish person has no idea what those terms even mean, and they certainly don't know about the racist implications behind them. Of course they should be more aware and ignorance is not an excuse for being offensive and racist, but seeing that American culture and history have no value for us, those things are simply not taught to us.

[jenny_jenkins]

It's the America-first attitude extending to cultural debate.

There are no grounds to be "disappointed" with Basti. He watched A FUCKING AMERICAN FILM and dressed up like one of the characters.

Americans would do well to look at the way Hollywood has portrayed this, for example, and express disappointment that it leads to this, not personalize it. Schweini watched an American film and obviously thought it must be okay.

Never attack a symptom, go after the cause. And very mainstream American commentators would have no problem with this costume. And that is the problem right there. Not some footballer in Germany whose country had no role in the genocide (though it did in many others).

[blackjedii]

wat
scuse me wat do u mean

don't u know America is the center of the universe? We're so important we have TWO CONTINENTS tyvm

(as an aside - I was just thinking earlier this weekend that at least Germany seems to be aware and study their bad things. I don't even think we went over the Japanese internment camps until high school and it probably wasn't until college wherein it was discussed just how flat-out murderous Europeans were wrt the indigenous folks. As kids we were just told that there were people here before us. So... yeah. USA has no flaws and has not since we freedom'd the world.)

[mrscrapbag]

There are no grounds to be "disappointed" with Basti. He watched A FUCKING AMERICAN FILM and dressed up like one of the characters.

he was the one who involved himself in an offensive movie by dressing up as that character in the first place! i think it's fair to be disappointed with him.

it's not about 'attacking the symptom', it's about criticizing even the simple micro-aggression because that is where it originated in the first place. it's part of the problem and therefore we should address it.

i say this as a non-american myself and as someone who gets annoyed with "americentrism"

[jenny_jenkins]

If he watched an American movie, his only education in this matter is that it's okay.

So again, you are looking at the symptom. I am far more interested in telling off dumb Americans for the way they insist on romanticizing their culture and then criticize the rest of the world for falling for it.

So I disagree with you. And I'm unlikely to be moved on this subject; as I can't stand American culture.