Where Have All the Good Men Gone?

[maynardsong]

Not so long ago, the average American man in his 20s had achieved most of the milestones of adulthood: a high-school diploma, financial independence, marriage and children. Today, most men in their 20s hang out in a novel sort of limbo, a hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. This "pre-adulthood" has much to

Comments

[maynardsong]

Even if it ultimately does a disservice to women?

[maynardsong]

NO ONE in this comm would object to criticizing dudebros. No one at all. The problem is that Kay Hymowitz wants to go from dudebros to MANLY MAN WHO BRING HOME THE BACON WHILE YOU'RE A GOODLY WIFEY. It's not ultimately dudebro culture she's criticizing at all, but the fact that ~men aren't men~.

[maynardsong]

But those male hobbies aren't the main problem with dudebro culture, either.

[maynardsong]

I'm not sure what you're out to argue here. "Some nagging bitch" only wants the dudebro to clean up after himself because SHE DOESN'T WANT TO, and indeed, I reckon it's because she too would rather be playing video games or reading Harry Potter or watching Stephen Colbert or whatever.

[maynardsong]

And what's stopping a single woman with a job and no dependents from supporting a "childish" hobby with her own income? Or man, for that matter? Who says a woman's supporting the childish hobby anyway? Using one's own money to buy Warhammer figurines doesn't make a man living by himself a dudebro.

[maynardsong]

But we're not talking about the dudebro lifestyle. We're zeroing in on some hobbies that some (many?) dudebros just happen to like that are not inherently a problem, but Kay Hymowitz pretends they are.

[ciaraxyerra]

okay, i'm late to the party. but...seriously? this article generated over 150 comments & they are almost exclusively people complaining that the article suggests that women are disinterested in video games

[maynardsong]

You put #2 and #4 in the same comment and they kind of directly contradict each other. You said it yourself: this author REIFIES gender expectations. How is that remotely good?

[ciaraxyerra]

perhaps my wording was unclear. i meant that this emergent developmental phase is tracking in a gendered manner & that gendered manner reifies gender expectations. not that the articles does.

[maynardsong]

I see it as an expression of our cultural uncertainty about the social role of men. It's been an almost universal rule of civilization that girls became women simply by reaching physical maturity, but boys had to pass a test. They needed to demonstrate courage, physical prowess or mastery of the necessary skills. The goal was to prove their competence as protectors and providers. Today, however, with women moving ahead in our advanced economy, husbands and fathers are now optional, and the qualities of character men once needed to play their roles-fortitude, stoicism, courage, fidelity-are obsolete, even a little embarrassing.

This reads like sympathy for the poor men who are forced to turn into dudebros 'cause we ladies outperformed them. Her sympathy is not for the women who look out for these men, but for the men themselves.

[ciaraxyerra]

is it not true that gender roles are confusing for men as well? that the qualities that once made men manly are now indeed vaguely embarrassing, during to changing economic/social conditions, as well as the gains women have made toward changing patriarchal expectations? & yet, there are few models for new fulfilling male gender roles for men