I would honestly rather see a comprehensive study that focused solely on female-on-male (or, you know, f-f/m-m) violence than one that tries to compare it to male-on-female
Violence against anyone (unprovoked violence, that is, not in self defense or against a habitual abuser) is a problem regardless of gender, but yes, it is overwhelmingly committed by men against women and I don't like seeing the "what about the men" comments made in a way that derails from that fact
Nonetheless there are times when we should go, "yeah, what ABOUT the men?" because a victim of violence is a victim of violence and should have help and resources available to them; unfortunately it seems like the only time people want to pay attention to male victims of abuse of any sort is to derail discussions of female victims and don't much give a shit about any victims, male or female
And then of course there's the fact that apparently violence only happens in relationships that involve a man and a woman--who knew!
lol I have a lot of conflicting thoughts here but really, no one should ignore that men can be victims of domestic abuse, and there shouldn't be a stigma surrounding men talking about it (because, you know, abuse is something that happens to women, right?), but the fact that men can be victims should not just be brought up the way it so often is to derail discussions of the epidemic that is male-on-female abuse
I'm so conflicted on it because I hate when men's rights activists et al throw in "but men are victims too" because it so often seems like they're simply focused on minimizing ways in which women are victimized and don't give a shit about any victims, just the theoretical idea of men as victims
If we're going to talk about the general umbrella idea of "domestic violence," we need to be abundantly clear about who is overwhelmingly more likely to be abused; I don't think that's served well by articles like this basically going "well yeah okay so women are abused but GET THIS so are men, crazy right?"
And if we're going to talk about men as victims and how it isn't (seriously) addressed often, we need to be aware of the misogynist reasons for that--it's accepted that women will be victimized and abused, that's just seen as what happens to women; same thing with casual rape jokes about men--it's like, ha ha, a man being raped, how silly! That's something that happens to women!
And we ALSO need to address, as this article fails to, that violence happens in homosexual relationships too, and those victims are dealing with the additional stigma of homophobia hindering them when they seek help
You pretty much said what I wanted to, much much better than I can.
Like, yes, women are physically abused at a much higher rate than men are. This is bad thing. But! Men are abused. This is ALSO a bad thing.
I'll be honest, and say sometimes I'm very much tempted (and not just in this community) to throw in a "but what about men who are abused?" and not in an attempt to derail at all, but because the way I see it, the fact that it's always given the brush off because it happens more to women is wrong. I find that often at least one commenter at that point makes a silly statement along the lines of "but it happens more to women" or "the men are the problem" and so on, and to me that seems....silly, for lack of a better word.
Men get abused. Just like Women do. None of it's good, none of it should be happening. But sometimes...it is about the men. And that's okay.
That's not at all what I said. The fact is, sometimes the conversation topic isn't women being abused. Sometimes the conversation topic is in fact men being abused. And the fact that men get abused is often brushed off with those two responses more than anything else.
Yes, it's bad women get abused. It should. not. happen. But it shouldn't be happening to men either with reasoning being basically that it's their own fault, or that no one has the time to care because they're focusing only on women. (And yes, I have actually seen someone say that men get abused and they don't care, because men aren't women.)
But the fact that almost any time someone brings up "hey, it happens to men too" it's dogpiling and shit slinging. And yeah, a lot of the times it is someone trying to derail, or be an ass. But sometimes it's a topic that needs to be looked at.
Maybe you can ask about the men somewhere else? You know, not in a feminist space? And maybe, just maybe, you can listen to the women here who have something to say about this subject.
I didn't actually ask about the men here, nor have I ever...but okay, sure. And I, as a woman who has dealt with it have something to say about this subject. Is my opinion somehow less valid?
No, your opinion is not less valid. What I am taking issue with here is that you said: "And the fact that men get abused is often brushed off with those two responses more than anything else."
Men do get abused. However, saying that women get abused more is not derailing (LOL!) It is a problem that affects women more and I do not understand why you are getting up in arms about people saying that?
No one here is denying that men do get abused. But I am getting upset with your implication that we should shift our focus to something that happens quite a bit, to something that happens.
I never said that saying women get abused more is derailing, and I'm really not seeing where you got that one from. I'm well aware it's a problem that affects women to a much higher degree than men. Believe me, I get it.
I'm not saying the focus should be completely shifted, but this article isn't only about men abusing women. Why is it that talking about men being abused by women when the original post is an article that contains that such a problem?
And you can say no one's denying it here, sure, but I've seen people both on the internet and IRL deny that it happens. Hell, someone here's already commented about men "whining" about being abused.
I saw that thread. I know what the commenter was trying to say and I agree with loser_anda_user, and the idea that some men think things like withholding sex and being lectured is abuse and that is pretty fucking stupid.
There is a problem, though, when the main focus becomes "what about the poor menz?" especially in a feminist community. I understand that the article is bring up men being abused by women, and that is something that may need to be discussed, but not here.
But...some women think that too. It's not as though it's a thought process that's somehow gender exclusive.
And I'm not saying it should be the main focus, but I guess I just don't see why the entirety of an article can be posted, but not discussed. (And yes, I do realize that if you were to cut out parts of this article referring to men being abused it likely wouldn't make much sense in the end.) Yes, it's a feminist comm, and the majority of the conversation should be about women being abused. And like I said elsewhere, if this article was only about women being abused, I wouldn't never have even made a peep about men.
I guess I just feel that even in a comm like this, if you post an article the whole thing should be up for discussion.
Honestly, say that some things that would be abuse for a woman from a man aren't when they're the other way around because the man has the privilege to far more easily walk away from it and not be as hurt.
Violence against anyone (unprovoked violence, that is, not in self defense or against a habitual abuser) is a problem regardless of gender, but yes, it is overwhelmingly committed by men against women and I don't like seeing the "what about the men" comments made in a way that derails from that fact
Nonetheless there are times when we should go, "yeah, what ABOUT the men?" because a victim of violence is a victim of violence and should have help and resources available to them; unfortunately it seems like the only time people want to pay attention to male victims of abuse of any sort is to derail discussions of female victims and don't much give a shit about any victims, male or female
And then of course there's the fact that apparently violence only happens in relationships that involve a man and a woman--who knew!
lol I have a lot of conflicting thoughts here but really, no one should ignore that men can be victims of domestic abuse, and there shouldn't be a stigma surrounding men talking about it (because, you know, abuse is something that happens to women, right?), but the fact that men can be victims should not just be brought up the way it so often is to derail discussions of the epidemic that is male-on-female abuse
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
If we're going to talk about the general umbrella idea of "domestic violence," we need to be abundantly clear about who is overwhelmingly more likely to be abused; I don't think that's served well by articles like this basically going "well yeah okay so women are abused but GET THIS so are men, crazy right?"
And if we're going to talk about men as victims and how it isn't (seriously) addressed often, we need to be aware of the misogynist reasons for that--it's accepted that women will be victimized and abused, that's just seen as what happens to women; same thing with casual rape jokes about men--it's like, ha ha, a man being raped, how silly! That's something that happens to women!
And we ALSO need to address, as this article fails to, that violence happens in homosexual relationships too, and those victims are dealing with the additional stigma of homophobia hindering them when they seek help
Reply
Like, yes, women are physically abused at a much higher rate than men are. This is bad thing. But! Men are abused. This is ALSO a bad thing.
I'll be honest, and say sometimes I'm very much tempted (and not just in this community) to throw in a "but what about men who are abused?" and not in an attempt to derail at all, but because the way I see it, the fact that it's always given the brush off because it happens more to women is wrong. I find that often at least one commenter at that point makes a silly statement along the lines of "but it happens more to women" or "the men are the problem" and so on, and to me that seems....silly, for lack of a better word.
Men get abused. Just like Women do. None of it's good, none of it should be happening. But sometimes...it is about the men. And that's okay.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
Reply
Yes, it's bad women get abused. It should. not. happen. But it shouldn't be happening to men either with reasoning being basically that it's their own fault, or that no one has the time to care because they're focusing only on women. (And yes, I have actually seen someone say that men get abused and they don't care, because men aren't women.)
But the fact that almost any time someone brings up "hey, it happens to men too" it's dogpiling and shit slinging. And yeah, a lot of the times it is someone trying to derail, or be an ass. But sometimes it's a topic that needs to be looked at.
Reply
Maybe you can ask about the men somewhere else? You know, not in a feminist space?
And maybe, just maybe, you can listen to the women here who have something to say about this subject.
Hope that helps.
Reply
And I, as a woman who has dealt with it have something to say about this subject. Is my opinion somehow less valid?
Reply
Men do get abused. However, saying that women get abused more is not derailing (LOL!) It is a problem that affects women more and I do not understand why you are getting up in arms about people saying that?
No one here is denying that men do get abused. But I am getting upset with your implication that we should shift our focus to something that happens quite a bit, to something that happens.
Reply
I'm not saying the focus should be completely shifted, but this article isn't only about men abusing women. Why is it that talking about men being abused by women when the original post is an article that contains that such a problem?
And you can say no one's denying it here, sure, but I've seen people both on the internet and IRL deny that it happens. Hell, someone here's already commented about men "whining" about being abused.
Reply
There is a problem, though, when the main focus becomes "what about the poor menz?" especially in a feminist community. I understand that the article is bring up men being abused by women, and that is something that may need to be discussed, but not here.
Reply
Reply
And I'm not saying it should be the main focus, but I guess I just don't see why the entirety of an article can be posted, but not discussed. (And yes, I do realize that if you were to cut out parts of this article referring to men being abused it likely wouldn't make much sense in the end.) Yes, it's a feminist comm, and the majority of the conversation should be about women being abused. And like I said elsewhere, if this article was only about women being abused, I wouldn't never have even made a peep about men.
I guess I just feel that even in a comm like this, if you post an article the whole thing should be up for discussion.
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment