oh so you're a man that must mean you're better than me

[onlywordsnow]

This is just a rant about all of the men in Shondaland (save for Mark Sloan and Jake Riley and even a bit of Sheldon Wallace).

Comments

[onlywordsnow]

LOL. Well, first of all, good morning.

Second, oh my.

Mostly, we've had this conversation before. I see where you are coming from on all fronts, but I think that idea is less male and more Mark. He doesn't get it. He doesn't get a lot of things and the reasoning for that is that he just thinks that's how things are. My opinion on why I don't ship Slexie was basically summed up right there.

I like to say a lot Lexie walked away from Mark when he needed her, which she did, but she had every right to. I love Lexie. I don't hate her for walking away because she should have, she has her every right. My biggest problem is that the writers were clearly trying to throw them together when they just didn't work. They didn't work because they wanted different things and I think Lexie being with him would have meant sacrificing a lot.

Being an aunt and being a mother are two very different things. I think he always had Lexie's career as an interest in the long run but it wasn't always at the fore fronts of his mind. I think when she was dying he felt like he was telling her what he thought she wanted to hear. She had made a play for him in her own way, which, maybe it wasn't like that. Maybe it was her simply telling him, "hey, I am still in love with you and this is hard for me," and he just doesn't get that. Derek certainly hasn't been helping the matter much.

Mark, in the way you explained it, does appear to be very, very chauvinistic but I don't necessarily think that is entirely his fault. He expressed to her a desire to want to have a wife and kids and a family, and she played along for a long time before actually saying it wasn't what she wanted. (That's assuming the span between 6x10 and 6x11; I, personally, would have had that conversation the moment I found out but that's just me.) I don't think he purposely does it as a man, in fact, I think if he were a woman he would think the same way, but it has to do with he didn't have an active parental role in his life and so he sees everyone around him doing these things and he thinks it's what he wants for himself. He just thinks it's what most people wants because, hell, if he wants it, who the hell wouldn't.

That being said, I am clearly a Mark stan. I think that separately, Mark and Lexie are excellent characters but they just don't mesh together. I do appreciate everything you've said because you are brilliant! Shonda does an excellent job at writing women as strong and independent (at least on Grey's because on PrP she is pushing it), and really appreciate it. One thing that I always want in television shows is the two characters to be recognized apart before they are recognized together because they are not extensions of the other.

PS - I support your meta. :)

[waltzmatildah]

I like to say a lot Lexie walked away from Mark when he needed her, which she did, but she had every right to. I think this sentence is much more explanatory and less simplistic than your initial she walked away from him fullstop sentence, and if you'd put that in your first post, I'd have had less to disagree with! Haha!!

and she played along for a long time before actually saying it wasn't what she wanted. I don't know that I'd say 'she played along' because, for all we know (and now we never really will *sob*) this might have been EXACTLY what Lexie wanted... in the future. She may not have been stringing him along with not saying something immediately because I honestly don't think she understood (until she suddenly DID!!!) that Mark was meaning RIGHT NOW, THIS MONTH, TODAY IN FACT. If that makes sense? So I saw it less as Lexie 'playing along' and more as a total break-down in communication from both of them re. timelines.

(which, tbh, considering the timeline fuckery on this show in general, it's little wonder the freaking characters can't communicate about them!!)

One thing that I always want in television shows is the two characters to be recognized apart before they are recognized together because they are not extensions of the other. OMG, THIS SO MUCH!! I want to put a giant, gold frame around these words!! Or tattoo them onto every adamant shipper ever to have existed!! There is more to a character(person) than who they're in a relationship with. OH LORD, THIS!!! And, tbh, I actually think this is a major factor in my complete lack of shipping in general. 99 times /100 I am far more interested in individuals than in couples. For example, the only real shipping I've ever engaged in has been Alex/Izzie and Buffy/Angel (and, to a lesser extent Damon/Katherine and Tyler/Caroline on TVD), but even those I prefer to be developed as individuals first and foremost. I don't think I've explained that very well, but basically, YES TO WHAT YOU SAID :)

Also, no-one does GA meta on my flist anymore, so thank you for posting this! I need to get around to posting my own.

[onlywordsnow]

For starters, I never should have included that in the first place, in retrospect. I mean, they broke up for many fantastic reasons and, in my opinion, I don't see why they would try again and again and again other than the fact that the challenge of moving on is increased 1000% when you see that person every day. There was no clean cut. In fact, the closest they got to it was the short time he spent in LA.

When he came back, they were both mad at each other about the same thing when neither really had the right to be. I actually at one point in their relationship forgot that they were together (early season 6), and this could have just been me because I have a way of doing that sometimes, but I would have been more okay with them reuniting had it not been dragged on for so long. However, I was elated when Alex/Lexie were back together.

The point of the post was more supposed to be about the men as individuals and less about them in relationships. The thing about Mark, and this is probably just because I defend him always, is that I think it was less because it is A and more because it is Mark. That's probably just me, but that deserves an entire post in it's own.

I get where you are coming from though with the whole his attitude. It's possible that I am just blind to it. haha.

Did you know that I once wrote Alex/Izzie fic? I'm not a huge shipper, at all, but I wrote it once.

[waltzmatildah]

Oh, I absolutely realise that I've gotten you off topic here! Haha! It's because I agree with everything else that you said and there was just this one line that I disagreed with but that wasn't even really fundamental to your original post, but it's a topic that's at the forefront of my GA mind these days, and so I jumped on it mostly so I could have something other than "yes to everything" to say in reply to your post :)

However, I do think it can be problematic to handwave someone's predjudices/problematic ideas as okay because it's 'just the way they are', or 'how they were brought up'.

I think it was less because it is A and more because it is Mark.

This is a bit like saying it's okay to be/not your fault if you are racist if you were bought up in a racist family. Well, no it doesn't (shouldn't) work like that. And while I don't think that's exactly what you're doing here with Mark, there does seem to be a LITTLE bit of that creeping in? Like, his male chauvinism is okay because it stems from how he was raised... See what I mean? So, I think it's fine to say that Mark's attitudes stem from his upbringing because, well, duh! BUT I do think the lines get blurry when we start to use that excuse to then justify them. There's a difference between Explaining and Justifying.

Having said all that, I also know what it's like to stan a character, for example I can defend and justify every single move Izzie Stevens ever made on this show (and even moves that she didn't!), and will stand by my opinions 'til I turn blue in the face...! But I guess I just think that if you post meta, you probably want to be engaged in a balanced conversation about it and so... that's what I'm doing here (and which is why I'll never post meta about Izzie!!). Definitely don't take this as me saying YOU'RE WRONG, because that's NOT AT ALL what I'm trying to say. More like, I see your point BUT... :)

Everyone, EVERYONE, should have to write me Alex/Izzie!!

[onlywordsnow]

I think more than anything Mark is ignorant to relationships. I don't, by any means, find him blameless in any way. I just think that where as he is seemingly chauvinistic (you've got me there), he doesn't corner Lexie while being so. I think that overall, it's easier to ignore when it isn't in your face. It seemed to me that it reached a point in season 8 that he said nothing and she did all of the talking. He was 100% aware of the fact that they didn't want the same things and didn't want to go back there. I think in the finale, he took her saying "I love you" as "I understand the things that you want but I love you anyway and I want to be with you", even though he clearly states that he knows better than that.

Well, I am writing you Alex/Lucy...which I like.