Mah Nishtanah

[onionsoupmix]

Tatte, I want to ask you the four questions...

The first question is why on all the other nights of the year, our house looks normal, but today the kitchen looks like an alien spaceship has landed, has landed.

The second question is why on all the other nights of the year, we eat normal vegetables and fruit but tonight mommy has peeled the

Comments

[sethg_prime]

The famous “Rupture and Reconstruction” essay suggests that indeed, there was less of a need to out-frum your friends and neighbors a few generations back, because these days (a) even in right-wing FFB communities, people trust rules written down in books more than they trust the way they were raised; (b) the Orthodox community has become more bourgeois, and so people’s identity as frummies is tied up in what they buy; (c) people feel more distant from God now, and they impose chumras on themselves to make up for that.

[elcour]

All that, indeed, is true - yet it's the socioeconomic factor that played the greatest role here, as OSM points out in her post.
People became richer, and things became cheaper. Western consumerism channels, thus, expressions of piety in a particular direction.

[onionsoupmix]

Interesting. So western consumerism is responsible for all the chumros? Somehow, I don't know if the majority of frummies would see it that way.

[sethg_prime]

Of course not! They’d have admit that their precious culture is being buffeted by influences from the secular world that have nothing to do with sex.

[onionsoupmix]

or that the secular world is a positive influence. I don't know which is more horrifying.

[elcour]

So western consumerism is responsible for all the chumros?
Certainly not. That thesis is akin to blaming terrorist attacks on mass-media (without which, true enough, terrorism could not exist).

It is just that the common (to all religious, and not only, unities) tendency of keeping up with the Joneses and being holier-than-thou takes a particular direction in the atmosphere of consumerism. In other days and places, it used to take different forms and directions.

Somehow, I don't know if the majority of frummies would see it that way
Does that reflect in any way upon veracity of my explanation?
E.g. Jews never dwelt in Ancient Egypt - yet somehow, majority of frummies would not see it that way either.

[onionsoupmix]

you really think jews never lived in mitzraim? So, the whole story is made up?

[elcour]

Well, yes.
For me, it damages not the holiness of the scriptures; I believe not the holy Torah to have been intended as a history school-book.

[onionsoupmix]

If the holy torah makes up stories, why should I believe anything else it has to say about morality or lessons from yetzias mitzrayim or whatever.

[hamaskil]

You shouldn't :)

It is amazing that some people choose to observe mitzvos not because they believe that there was Yetzias Mitzrayim, or Maamad Har Sinai, or that there was Moses or Hashem. I certainly don't understand why would I choose to tie my feet, figuratively speaking, when I am walking, however, it might be beneficial for other people who may walk too fast.

[elcour]

I certainly don't understand why would I choose to tie my feet, figuratively speaking, when I am walking, however, it might be beneficial for other people who may walk too fast
As a [formerly professional] rock-climber, I can tell you about tying my hips prior to climbing - in order to avoid flying too fast.

Did you see, perchance, my old post about prof. Alexandrov and the brick?

[hamaskil]

Yes, I vividly remember that post, even though not totally understand the professor.

[elcour]

Anything there that you feel needs clarification?

[hamaskil]

I think I understand the professor's point, but I don't necessarily agree with him.

Let me understand that

[elcour]

Are you thus expressing your disagreement with the claim that his reasons for carrying around the brick are as stated?

Re: Let me understand that

[hamaskil]

I understand his reasons, yet don't agree with him. Let me give you an example of what I mean:

Imagine a certain person who has a monthly pass but still buys a ticket when riding a bus. I can understand why he needs a monthly pass ( maybe he'd lose the ticket ), yet I don't agree that it is a necessity.