University funding

[onebyone]

If Lord Browne's plans go into effect, it seems likely that the four-year degree I took from Oxford will soon cost 24k at the very least, and perhaps more like 40k, in student debt for fees. What actually happened was that I graduated 10 years ago with 5k in student debt, none of which was because of tuition fees

Comments

Without trawling through the comments

[a_llusive]

Aside from the actual figures, just looking at the repayment proposals:

The pay cutoff point means that many students wouldn't start paying back for years, if ever (Graduate veterinary nurses, those who go into less renumerated public service roles, and those where the chosen career doesn't pan out).
Careers which take individuals abroad for years at a time (particularly likely for high fliers) would involve repayments and defaulting complications - sorting this out will vastly increase the admin costs of the scheme over the current lot, given that the fees involved will be greater than today
The successful will be inadvertently encouraged to work outside the UK

I'm not fond of the principal that HE is purely a service to the individual rather than a national good.without related.
I'm really not seeing the intermediate training options which those who no longer think a degree is value for money for pursuing their chosen vocation (nursing for example) where non-degree routes have partly or entirely dried up, or lack the requisite (non-academic) quality.

Re: Without trawling through the comments

[undyingking]

The overseas aspect would be simply fixed by taxing all UK citizens as though resident, in the same way that the USA does. There are plenty of other good reasons to do this: residence overseas is the mechanism of all manner of large-scale tax avoidance.

Re: Without trawling through the comments

[a_llusive]

Well, EU citizens don't pay UK taxes anyway but have the same entitlement to UK universities as UK students - just as UK students can go to university in EU countries which don't charge their students at all, if they have the language skills. Taxing UK citizens resident overseas isn't a great help there.

Does the US tax all citizens as though resident? I hadn't realised that friends of ours were paying US taxes on top of UK ones despite not being resident in the relevant country for years.

Individuals being double-taxed while working overseas because their national and employer nations' tax regime's conflict isn't hugely appealing as an idea -
does your company want to employ people who they'll have to sort out US tax payments on top of UK ones, or have a separate payroll for overseas citizens without tax? How would you (or they) handle dual nationalities?

Not all career paths (especially academic) can be followed in just one country - imagine you are the average university or office worker in their 20s, or you moved abroad with your spouse when they could only get a post in their field overseas - paying local and home taxes would be crippling and you'd be paying for all the local things you couldn't access at all.

Re: Without trawling through the comments

[undyingking]

Mm, the EU aspect complicates things. Although presumably non-British EU people studying here aren't funded by the UK govt anyway, but by themselves or their own govt. Plus of course Scottish students are handled differently. But these are just accounting issues that needn't obstruct the principle.

Yes, the US taxes all citizens, wherever resident, on their income wherever earned. For some countries of residence they have a tax treaty arrangement to mitigate the efects of double taxation, but the theory is that anyone who's a US citizen should be contributing fully to its revenues. What this all means for the people and employers involved I don't know, but it's long established and no-one seems to complain all that vocally.

Analogous treaties could be arranged for British graduates who are (genuinely) resident overseas: they pay the bulk of their income tax to the country of residency, but continue to be liable for the graduate tax to the UK govt.

The point being that although it may initially sound complex and fraught with perverse effects, clearly it does work acceptably in the US case, so we can fine tune it based on the solutions they've found.

Re: Without trawling through the comments

[a_llusive]

presumably non-British EU people studying here aren't funded by the UK govt anyway, but by themselves or their own govt.

WRONG.
They are charged fees and get UK student loans on exactly the same terms as UK students (there is no cross charging scheme to extract the money from their home nation). Anything else would breach EU laws. But, as mentioned, on the same grounds where a EU government fully funds or substantially subsidises degrees in its territories, UK students don't have to pay any more then the host government's nationals.
Recovery rates on such student loans are far lower than of UK citizens student loans.

The tax scheme is (after all) projected for the government to front universities the fee money so they will be insulated from cashflow problems but that won't stop a large hole in that financing developing if recovery rates are poor. Given this government claims to be all about fiscal responsibility and not creating unsustainable funding models this seems odd.

Re: Without trawling through the comments

[a_llusive]

There are plenty of people who are actually resident overseas though.