How does he pronounce oestrogen? If it's 'oe' as long 'ee' then he's doing it right. British pronunciation, British show. If he's doing it as 'oe' as short 'e' then shame on him.
Visit Cardiff! Then we would come down and visit at the same time and it would make TB very happy because it's where he grew up (and where I was born).
Yes, but everyone on the show thinks he's an American right? He has a completely American accent! He wouldn't pronounce something like "advertisement" the British way, would he? Or would he?
/hopes the TW writers stay away from words with significantly different American/British pronunciations from now on
Also, Jack standing up on high things? As long as he has the coat, he's golden.
They may think he's American, but he's not. So it's fine for him to pronounce things differently. Plus, he's been in Britain for the best part of a century - he's bound to have picked up some differences. And as John Barrowman is using his normal accent, I assume that's how he usually pronounces it.
I don't think anyone's going to go 'Aha! You pronounced oestrogen the British way, that must mean you're not American at all but a 51st century con man from Earth in the future! Oh noes!' We're much more likely to notice if it gets pronounced 'wrong' than 'right'. Because right would just flow over Owen et al, whereas 'wrong' would irritate (if they're anything like me).
You realize that I'm basing my opinion entirely on how incredibly irritating it is to hear someone say "eestrogen" with an American accent, right? Because omg, it drives me up a wall. I physically cringe. At this point I start cringing about 30 seconds before he even says it, because I know it's coming. This does not come from a logical place.
No, but it does! It's not that the pronunciation is wrong, it's that it's inconsistent with the character. And the character's accent. It's the switching that's irritating, because the accent and the pronunciation don't mesh well at ALL.
That actually only works as an argument if he's doing a British accent for the whole show.
Otherwise, he's saying all sorts of things with American pronunciation, and then just a few things with a British one. It's the inconsistency that bothers me, because in the States, it's not even spelled with an 'oe'. As a conman, he ought to know better than to fuck up the accent of the guy he's pretending to be.
Given that he's using an American accent for everything else, the long E is really, really jarring for American viewers. And, since here Jack is likely to be the gateway character rather than Gwen, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets mentioned in reviews. A lot.
But it wasn't written or filmed for American viewers. And it wouldn't give British ones a second's pause.
And it wouldn't bother the Torchwood guys either. Because no one knows anything about Jack's background, how long he's been in the UK and he could just have picked up a few bits and pieces of the pronunciation/accent. I know I do that the whole time. My pronunciation of where I live, for example, has changed since I moved here, because how the rest of the country does it is not how the locals do. And, as I said, it's just John talking the way he normally talks - which, as he grew up mostly in America but has spent a lot of time in Britain kind of proves my point.
I do appreciate how odd it must sound to you, though.
So I'm willing to accept the logic of picking up bits and pieces of the pronunciation, but I also agree with omphale23 that it's horribly inconsistent. It's absolutely possible that that's what Barrowman says these days, but as an American that's almost hard to fathom because man, does it sound horribly awkward and wrong when he says it. Maybe he was influenced by the spelling in the script?
I really don't know why this tiny little thing is so jarring to American ears, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets mentioned quite a bit (btw, the first American review of TW I read misquoted "period military" as "paramilitary", which I found kinda cute but also evidence that omg we Americans have a bizarrely hard time understanding other accents).
And this conversation is so about avoiding my American Legal Profession readings. *g*
It's fulfilling that requirement, but it's more of a history course, I think. I hope. Hard to say so far. All I know is that my friends said that our straight-up Professional Responsibility course was the worst any of them had ever taken--taught by this guy, who in addition to being 90 years old is reportedly a total ass--so I opted for one of the only alternatives.
I'm not even planning on taking the bar, so sitting through this crap is particularly painful.
Our Professional Responsibility course was taught by a prof who literally ignored everything the women in the class said. As in, a woman would answer a question, he would look at her, call on a man and get the same answer, and then thank the male student for getting it right.
It was sort of a chance to learn ethics by seeing what happened when the prof didn't know the subject matter.
Really? Because this guy (the old one) is pretty similar, supposedly. My female roommate was one of the best students in our class--got a note published in the Journal, lots of clerkship offers, etc--and apparently she never said anything right in the class. And because of the type of person my roommate is, instead of being "Fuck you, you sexist asshole" about it, she just kept trying harder and harder, and making the situation worse.
It constantly blows my mind how insensitive to race, gender, pretty much anything some of the profs are. They're socially awkward in general, which I think is the cause of some of it, but it's so fucked up what profs at a liberal law school can get away with in 2007.
Yeah, well. My reaction was more of the "Fuck you" variety. It was funny, because the incident I remember the most clearly is one where I said something, got blown off, and one of my (male) friends looked right at me, said the same thing, and then rolled his eyes at the prof when he was praised.
And mine was a conservative law school--in order for the prof to get reprimanded (which he was, for a couple of reasons) it has to be pretty damn obvious.
He could have been influenced by the spelling. You've got to remember he lived in Scotland until he was eight. His family is Scottish, he's spent a long time in England. He's a bit of a mix and match. So it probably isn't remotely jarring to his ears.
I'm sure there must be English equivalents as to the horribleness of hearing the American pronunciation attached to the English accent. I'm fairly sure I've found myself cringing before now. But I don't really understand why one word is worthy of being mentioned in reviews etc. I just don't think we'd care that much. I could be very, very wrong, though.
I know he lived in Scotland--but he spent the rest of his childhood in Joliet, and trust me, weird pronunciations wouldn't have gone down well there. From what he's said in interviews, he picked up the American accent fairly quickly, and he lived in the US for almost 14 years. I feel pretty confident that he knows how the word is pronounced in the States.
And again, it's not that I think Barrowman would find it odd--it's that Jack Harkness would.
But I don't really understand why one word is worthy of being mentioned in reviews etc. I just don't think we'd care that much.
The placement. It's at the head of the show, very nearly the first thing Jack Harkness says onscreen. And American reviewers are going to be watching him very closely, because British shows tend not to get American characters right. (The same way that American shows screw up British characters, and then that gets mentioned in British reviews.)
Visit Cardiff! Then we would come down and visit at the same time and it would make TB very happy because it's where he grew up (and where I was born).
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/hopes the TW writers stay away from words with significantly different American/British pronunciations from now on
Also, Jack standing up on high things? As long as he has the coat, he's golden.
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I don't think anyone's going to go 'Aha! You pronounced oestrogen the British way, that must mean you're not American at all but a 51st century con man from Earth in the future! Oh noes!' We're much more likely to notice if it gets pronounced 'wrong' than 'right'. Because right would just flow over Owen et al, whereas 'wrong' would irritate (if they're anything like me).
High things. Yes.
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That actually only works as an argument if he's doing a British accent for the whole show.
Otherwise, he's saying all sorts of things with American pronunciation, and then just a few things with a British one. It's the inconsistency that bothers me, because in the States, it's not even spelled with an 'oe'. As a conman, he ought to know better than to fuck up the accent of the guy he's pretending to be.
Given that he's using an American accent for everything else, the long E is really, really jarring for American viewers. And, since here Jack is likely to be the gateway character rather than Gwen, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets mentioned in reviews. A lot.
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And it wouldn't bother the Torchwood guys either. Because no one knows anything about Jack's background, how long he's been in the UK and he could just have picked up a few bits and pieces of the pronunciation/accent. I know I do that the whole time. My pronunciation of where I live, for example, has changed since I moved here, because how the rest of the country does it is not how the locals do. And, as I said, it's just John talking the way he normally talks - which, as he grew up mostly in America but has spent a lot of time in Britain kind of proves my point.
I do appreciate how odd it must sound to you, though.
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I really don't know why this tiny little thing is so jarring to American ears, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets mentioned quite a bit (btw, the first American review of TW I read misquoted "period military" as "paramilitary", which I found kinda cute but also evidence that omg we Americans have a bizarrely hard time understanding other accents).
And this conversation is so about avoiding my American Legal Profession readings. *g*
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I'm not even planning on taking the bar, so sitting through this crap is particularly painful.
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It was sort of a chance to learn ethics by seeing what happened when the prof didn't know the subject matter.
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It constantly blows my mind how insensitive to race, gender, pretty much anything some of the profs are. They're socially awkward in general, which I think is the cause of some of it, but it's so fucked up what profs at a liberal law school can get away with in 2007.
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And mine was a conservative law school--in order for the prof to get reprimanded (which he was, for a couple of reasons) it has to be pretty damn obvious.
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I'm sure there must be English equivalents as to the horribleness of hearing the American pronunciation attached to the English accent. I'm fairly sure I've found myself cringing before now. But I don't really understand why one word is worthy of being mentioned in reviews etc. I just don't think we'd care that much. I could be very, very wrong, though.
Get on with your work!
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And again, it's not that I think Barrowman would find it odd--it's that Jack Harkness would.
But I don't really understand why one word is worthy of being mentioned in reviews etc. I just don't think we'd care that much.
The placement. It's at the head of the show, very nearly the first thing Jack Harkness says onscreen. And American reviewers are going to be watching him very closely, because British shows tend not to get American characters right. (The same way that American shows screw up British characters, and then that gets mentioned in British reviews.)
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