Re: ugh i hate how long this is. but w/e. this is my last word. ninjacandyApril 9 2013, 22:26:11 UTC
Plus if Kris was fucking off to go job hunting why in the world would SME let him go off? even hold the group back for him? are they that lenient and understanding all of a sudden?
They didn't let him go off - he just went off. However, given that he had yet to issue an announcement of his departure it would make little sense for SME to be so ridiculously reactive. It's not them being 'understanding' of Kris's idol crisis (by holding the group back) but rather sensitive to the situation that is threatening a group that cost a lot of money to clothe.
plus they could have just pulled a kibum on him, kept him in the company as a member of exo but instead doing other gigs instead of singing/dancing.
You don't seem to understand what you're talking about. Kim Kibum of Super Junior had an impressive falling out with the new CEO of SME (who has little interest in Super Junior compared to SNSD, TVXQ and EXO) hence why he was suddenly put on a bus despite his constant requests to return to Super Junior. Kris doesn't just want to leave EXO he wants to leave SME.
"good show"? is everything a lie? is literally every second of these boys lives run by SME? and wouldnt it be difficult to lie that much and that consistently? even the best liars falter. and fantaken pics and cams are constant.
Everything in front of fans and cameras are 'a lie'. Is it really so hard to believe that human beings are capable of putting on different fronts, especially when they have been trained by their company to do so? How in the heck was so much Cold War espionage able to take place if it was 'difficult to lie that much and that consistently?' Why do fans, in their desperation to deny the truth, seem to think their idols are incapable of things an average human can do and does in average aspects of life.
yes there was bullying of the chinese trainees by korean trainees but there was MANY trainees around. SME has literally hundreds of trainees on deck. so six out of that many, the odds of that...well u do the math.
Math might be your strong point but apparently comprehension is not. I have said that it the EXO trainees bullied one another when they were EXO trainees - already having been chosen for the group and preparing for debut.
i have literally not seen a single source (as in the usual sources every1 trusts and relies on in english speaking fandoms) say anything of this sort.
That's because those aren't my sources.
ofc i wont believe it without actual hard evidence of any kind. what kind of moron would i be then?
Well, you'll happily defend the SME crafted stage personas. You seem a tad too emotionally invested.
Re: ugh i hate how long this is. but w/e. this is my last word. ninjacandyApril 10 2013, 00:04:40 UTC
Xiumin (according to the saesang sources) is a nice and put upon individual - he is quiet, reserved and works his hardest to overcome his largest obstacle (the fact he is considered ugly, has the least saesangs, least fans and nearly didn't make it to EXO). So I cannot begrudge him and have decided to use an icon to celebrate that he isn't rolling like an EXO-KLAN member and isn't as conniving as EXO-M members can be. However, if I hear anything (that I am allowed to discuss) then I of course shall gleefully denigrate him. They're idols, not my omnipresent Old Testament God XD I chose the icon today in celebration of the fact that he (and Chen) are actually nice (or at least inoffensive).
Yes, you are completely right - bless your doucheradar! I was told he was foremost bully and is very racist, and homophobic (by the sources~). He takes his racist jokes and homophobic jokes too far and often at the expense of those he is taunting.
Re: ugh i hate how long this is. but w/e. this is my last word. teigaApril 10 2013, 00:19:34 UTC
Thank you for your reply! I won't treat it as fact, but as something I personally choose to believe in :) Just like I do with everything idol/k-pop related.
It's interesting that Chen and him are considered to be "nice". This makes one question if it could have anything to do with them being placed in M - if because of having that trait or rather developing it under those circumstances. If all of this should be reality, I hope Xiumin has found at least one genuine friend who he can stick to.
What keeps me wondering, maybe it's a dumb rhetorical question: if fans have come to such conclusions about most (?) EXO members then why do they choose to remain fans? Some of what you're hinting at sounds like total no-gos..?!
(or at least inoffensive) ugh ugh ugh
In the end, EXO is still a big fat black hole, granted how little they've officially promoted yet and still sticking very much to idol textbook statements.
Re: ugh i hate how long this is. but w/e. this is my last word. ninjacandyApril 10 2013, 00:41:56 UTC
No worries! :)
Hm, I think because these people are saesangs (as opposed to fans) and also from a different cultural background from internationals (Western fans), they have a very different standard. They accept the bad parts of these idols (after all it was JYJ saesangs who hid the assault incident until one decided to leak it - and that person leaked it because they no longer liked JYJ). They will protect their idols because they like them and have invested a lot of money into being saesangs (paying to follow them across the globe), and are also very close to these idols (and their managers). Their relationship is markedly different from that of fans hence why they don't have a typical fan reaction. However, fans too often ignore stories they hear so the idea that a saesang would ignore bad parts (or excuse them) is not so shocking(?)
Culture can play a big part too. Chanyeol saesangs won't think of his racism or homophobia as particularly offensive (especially as he is a Korean male). In much the same way 1D fans tend to excuse their catcalling because it's excused as the behaviour of British males. However, Westerners who hear this story will think "Oh, this person is racist."
Another thing to consider is that saesangs don't ~saesang~ for a group but for an individual and that is a whole 'nother political game. [INSERT EXO MEMBER NAME] saesang will not tell the negative things about that member but won't have problems divulging (truthful) negative things about other members (aiya! that idol is a bully, this idol uses his money to get friends, this idol picks popular people to befriend, this idol is a camera whore etc etc) So you often have to compile different dedicated fan tales to get a clear picture.
Some will attempt to ignore what these dedicated fans say by going "they might be antisss~" The reality is that everyone has antis but not everyone, such as Zhou Mi for example, get accused of being racist and homophobic.
Another thing is that saesangs can get quite nationalistic and hide things from each other. Korean saesangs at times mistrust Chinese saesangs as a lot of gossip is leaked outside of Korea - the rumours about Yuri's sexuality for example and the attempt of 5 Super Junior members to leave. Han Geng's departure was first told by Chinese saesangs.
P.S. Apologies for using saesangs and fans interchangeably, I get carried away in context.
Also, the no-gos aren't because the idols themselves are terrible (it's hard to beat bullying, racism and homophobia!) but because the information could lead to the sources themselves getting into trouble with other saesangs (being excluded from the fandom). I don't want to do that. So I have to be vague - which will upset many but whatevs~
Re: ugh i hate how long this is. but w/e. this is my last word. teigaApril 10 2013, 12:33:49 UTC
I'd like to respond to your post, but would prefer to do so in private (instead of drawing it out even more on here). If it's fine with you and if you feel like it, could you also please enable messages being sent to you by registered LJ users? You can change that on your profile settings. But no pressure and no butthurt feelings if you're not up for it of course.
Re: ugh i hate how long this is. but w/e. this is my last word. teigaApril 12 2013, 21:05:16 UTC
I've tried to reply to your message, but it still tells me I'm not allowed to due to your privacy settings, even though you've contacted me ;;
(you have to go to your profile -> top right "manage profile" -> then scrolling down to contact information (I think that's what it is in English) -> LJ User Messaging -> setting it to registered users :))
Re: ugh i hate how long this is. but w/e. this is my last word. sisterjuneApril 10 2013, 04:12:54 UTC
Look I'm gonna give u the Kris thing becuz I dont wanna argue about it anymore. I hope its not true. but if it is, well what can I do? and if he does leave, thats sad and if he doesnt then good. I only care about what happens next. Man I didnt know that cold war espionage was comparable to frickin kpop idols but hey what do i know? ur the expert afterall. srsly tho how are kpop idols in any way equivalent to international spies during a war/world wide crisis/conflict? These guys are kids, barely out from under their mothers bosoms and high school, who were taught to sing, dance, and keep their shit together so they dont fuck up their careers via scandals, that is it. last i checked not groping ur bandmates at every given occasion doesnt cause idol groups to tank. You talking about "human behavior" is comical to me, because humans are actually not wired that way. most humans are SHIT liars and always have tells. there's even a whole science built around reading facial expressions to show how truthful a person is being at any given time. the only people who could lie so perfectly like that aside from trained spies would be sociopaths. surprisingly u dont need a bunch of insider sources to read body language. Also there's a p big difference between expressing diff aspects of your personality in diff environments and having a split personality. look It doesnt matter if we believe different things, thats not why I havent let this drop yet (altho i rly should) rather its a bit irritating that you're insisting i'm some kind of crazy delusional fangirl just cause that the Exo doesnt calculate their every single interaction in order to most please the fangirls. There isnt some covert super stealth operation going on for fuck's sake its not that serious! Oh the irony of you telling me I'm so biased by my "emotions" that I cant see "the truth" when you just admitted you hate everyone. hatred is also an intense emotion. in case u forgot Also, you have yet to tell me your sources. I'm not saying u dont have any, but you're basically a rando on omona i've never spoken to before, insisting something p big is true with zero proof aside from "i have sources who tell me so" and essentially I am just supposed to accept that unquestionably? and you talk like i'm a peon because i choose to think critically rather than take every word from u as the fuckin gospel. if anything I'm giving you too much credence as it is. Who are you for me to view u as an authority on all things SME and exo? Cause your friend of a friend read it on a saesang forum? ur buddy from korea is bffs with all the exo saesangs? Where are the receipts? Is there shady shit going on in SME? ofc. duh. is some of it to do with exo? sure but does that mean I have to buy everything that comes out of every fangirl's mouth? You know any fangirl can claim she has "sources" to back up w/e shit they want to say. You may just be repeating what someone told u, but that doesnt mean they are beyond reproach, even if YOU think they are, there's no reason for ME to. Believe what u want but dont get all self important and condescending on me for not believing it when all I have to go on is your word.
They didn't let him go off - he just went off. However, given that he had yet to issue an announcement of his departure it would make little sense for SME to be so ridiculously reactive. It's not them being 'understanding' of Kris's idol crisis (by holding the group back) but rather sensitive to the situation that is threatening a group that cost a lot of money to clothe.
plus they could have just pulled a kibum on him, kept him in the company as a member of exo but instead doing other gigs instead of singing/dancing.
You don't seem to understand what you're talking about. Kim Kibum of Super Junior had an impressive falling out with the new CEO of SME (who has little interest in Super Junior compared to SNSD, TVXQ and EXO) hence why he was suddenly put on a bus despite his constant requests to return to Super Junior. Kris doesn't just want to leave EXO he wants to leave SME.
"good show"? is everything a lie? is literally every second of these boys lives run by SME? and wouldnt it be difficult to lie that much and that consistently? even the best liars falter. and fantaken pics and cams are constant.
Everything in front of fans and cameras are 'a lie'. Is it really so hard to believe that human beings are capable of putting on different fronts, especially when they have been trained by their company to do so? How in the heck was so much Cold War espionage able to take place if it was 'difficult to lie that much and that consistently?' Why do fans, in their desperation to deny the truth, seem to think their idols are incapable of things an average human can do and does in average aspects of life.
yes there was bullying of the chinese trainees by korean trainees but there was MANY trainees around. SME has literally hundreds of trainees on deck. so six out of that many, the odds of that...well u do the math.
Math might be your strong point but apparently comprehension is not. I have said that it the EXO trainees bullied one another when they were EXO trainees - already having been chosen for the group and preparing for debut.
i have literally not seen a single source (as in the usual sources every1 trusts and relies on in english speaking fandoms) say anything of this sort.
That's because those aren't my sources.
ofc i wont believe it without actual hard evidence of any kind. what kind of moron would i be then?
Well, you'll happily defend the SME crafted stage personas. You seem a tad too emotionally invested.
I, however, hate everyone.
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except for Xiumin? (because of your icon)
Am I right when I'm getting major douchebag vibes from Chanyeol..?
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Yes, you are completely right - bless your doucheradar! I was told he was foremost bully and is very racist, and homophobic (by the sources~). He takes his racist jokes and homophobic jokes too far and often at the expense of those he is taunting.
Reply
It's interesting that Chen and him are considered to be "nice". This makes one question if it could have anything to do with them being placed in M - if because of having that trait or rather developing it under those circumstances.
If all of this should be reality, I hope Xiumin has found at least one genuine friend who he can stick to.
What keeps me wondering, maybe it's a dumb rhetorical question: if fans have come to such conclusions about most (?) EXO members then why do they choose to remain fans? Some of what you're hinting at sounds like total no-gos..?!
(or at least inoffensive)
ugh ugh ugh
In the end, EXO is still a big fat black hole, granted how little they've officially promoted yet and still sticking very much to idol textbook statements.
Reply
Hm, I think because these people are saesangs (as opposed to fans) and also from a different cultural background from internationals (Western fans), they have a very different standard. They accept the bad parts of these idols (after all it was JYJ saesangs who hid the assault incident until one decided to leak it - and that person leaked it because they no longer liked JYJ). They will protect their idols because they like them and have invested a lot of money into being saesangs (paying to follow them across the globe), and are also very close to these idols (and their managers). Their relationship is markedly different from that of fans hence why they don't have a typical fan reaction. However, fans too often ignore stories they hear so the idea that a saesang would ignore bad parts (or excuse them) is not so shocking(?)
Culture can play a big part too. Chanyeol saesangs won't think of his racism or homophobia as particularly offensive (especially as he is a Korean male). In much the same way 1D fans tend to excuse their catcalling because it's excused as the behaviour of British males. However, Westerners who hear this story will think "Oh, this person is racist."
Another thing to consider is that saesangs don't ~saesang~ for a group but for an individual and that is a whole 'nother political game. [INSERT EXO MEMBER NAME] saesang will not tell the negative things about that member but won't have problems divulging (truthful) negative things about other members (aiya! that idol is a bully, this idol uses his money to get friends, this idol picks popular people to befriend, this idol is a camera whore etc etc) So you often have to compile different dedicated fan tales to get a clear picture.
Some will attempt to ignore what these dedicated fans say by going "they might be antisss~" The reality is that everyone has antis but not everyone, such as Zhou Mi for example, get accused of being racist and homophobic.
Another thing is that saesangs can get quite nationalistic and hide things from each other. Korean saesangs at times mistrust Chinese saesangs as a lot of gossip is leaked outside of Korea - the rumours about Yuri's sexuality for example and the attempt of 5 Super Junior members to leave. Han Geng's departure was first told by Chinese saesangs.
P.S. Apologies for using saesangs and fans interchangeably, I get carried away in context.
Also, the no-gos aren't because the idols themselves are terrible (it's hard to beat bullying, racism and homophobia!) but because the information could lead to the sources themselves getting into trouble with other saesangs (being excluded from the fandom). I don't want to do that. So I have to be vague - which will upset many but whatevs~
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But no pressure and no butthurt feelings if you're not up for it of course.
Reply
(you have to go to your profile -> top right "manage profile" -> then scrolling down to contact information (I think that's what it is in English) -> LJ User Messaging -> setting it to registered users :))
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Man I didnt know that cold war espionage was comparable to frickin kpop idols but hey what do i know? ur the expert afterall. srsly tho how are kpop idols in any way equivalent to international spies during a war/world wide crisis/conflict? These guys are kids, barely out from under their mothers bosoms and high school, who were taught to sing, dance, and keep their shit together so they dont fuck up their careers via scandals, that is it. last i checked not groping ur bandmates at every given occasion doesnt cause idol groups to tank. You talking about "human behavior" is comical to me, because humans are actually not wired that way. most humans are SHIT liars and always have tells. there's even a whole science built around reading facial expressions to show how truthful a person is being at any given time. the only people who could lie so perfectly like that aside from trained spies would be sociopaths. surprisingly u dont need a bunch of insider sources to read body language. Also there's a p big difference between expressing diff aspects of your personality in diff environments and having a split personality.
look It doesnt matter if we believe different things, thats not why I havent let this drop yet (altho i rly should) rather its a bit irritating that you're insisting i'm some kind of crazy delusional fangirl just cause that the Exo doesnt calculate their every single interaction in order to most please the fangirls. There isnt some covert super stealth operation going on for fuck's sake its not that serious!
Oh the irony of you telling me I'm so biased by my "emotions" that I cant see "the truth" when you just admitted you hate everyone. hatred is also an intense emotion. in case u forgot Also, you have yet to tell me your sources. I'm not saying u dont have any, but you're basically a rando on omona i've never spoken to before, insisting something p big is true with zero proof aside from "i have sources who tell me so" and essentially I am just supposed to accept that unquestionably? and you talk like i'm a peon because i choose to think critically rather than take every word from u as the fuckin gospel. if anything I'm giving you too much credence as it is.
Who are you for me to view u as an authority on all things SME and exo? Cause your friend of a friend read it on a saesang forum? ur buddy from korea is bffs with all the exo saesangs? Where are the receipts? Is there shady shit going on in SME? ofc. duh. is some of it to do with exo? sure but does that mean I have to buy everything that comes out of every fangirl's mouth? You know any fangirl can claim she has "sources" to back up w/e shit they want to say. You may just be repeating what someone told u, but that doesnt mean they are beyond reproach, even if YOU think they are, there's no reason for ME to. Believe what u want but dont get all self important and condescending on me for not believing it when all I have to go on is your word.
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