CLIMBING THE STAIRS: An Interview with the Author
I'm extremely pleased to be a stop on Padma Venkatraman's CLIMBING THE STAIRS Blog Book Tour! CLIMBING THE STAIRS was released by Penguin's Putnam imprint on May 1, and has received starred reviews in Booklist and Publishers Weekly, a 5Q review in VOYA and excellent reviews in Kirkus and School Library Journal. The Providence Journal's Sam Coale says "I loved it" and The South County Independent's Betty Cotter calls it "a rich and complex story." Padma is an adjunct professor of oceanography and director of graduate diversity at URI. She also wrote a thoughtful, lovely book.
What made you choose this particular moment in India's history as your background?
The period fascinated me because it was a time of such dramatic contrast in the world - on the one hand, the world was engaged in one of the largest wars of human history; on the other hand, the world was witnessing the first successful nation-wide nonviolent independence movement. I was also drawn to this time emotionally because it was when my mother had grown up.
How was this period a part of your own childhood and adolescence?
I grew particularly interested in this time period when I read a story in school called “The Bench” about apartheid in South Africa. I was shocked to discover about institutionalized racism, and even more shocked when, upon discussing this with my mother, I realized that racial segregation also existed in British India and that my mother had personally experienced this. For those of you who’ve read the book - the Black Crow chapter is based on an incident that happened to my mother.
What are the legacies of that period that remain today? It was a particularly compelling moment when the characters are attempting to figure out which European nation is "worse". What is the legacy of the complicated relationship between England and India today?
One legacy of the period that I wish people paid more attention to is the message of nonviolence. Mahatma Gandhi wasn’t the first Indian to have that idea, necessarily, but probably the most charismatic Indian leader of nonviolence as a means of protest and rebellion. Unfortunately, I’m not sure we discuss the principles he stood for or examine the issue of violence as much as it deserves.
The legacy of British colonialism - that’s something I could fill the pages of a nonfiction book with! It’s undeniably, inextricably part of the fabric of the nation in small and large ways. One undeniably good legacy of British rule is the Indian railway system. Why and how they built it, of course, can (and sometimes is) debated. In fact, Indians still like to argue over what was good/bad about the British occupation of India (as some of the characters do in the book) and it’s usually a pretty emotionally charged argument when it occurs.
To me, it’s an important question to raise, to look at, to try and understand from different points of view. Which is why that question is asked but not answered in the book - as are other questions/issues/debates.
I'd never known that India had been a haven for Jewish refugees -- can you elaborate a bit on how that came about, and the Jewish community in India today?
My sister had a fair number of Indian Jewish friends - in fact, she has a friend called Rifka, who lives in Bombay, like the character in the book. I also had an Indian Jewish friend, but her family came from Kerala, in the South of India. Bombay and Kerala have some of the largest remaining Jewish populations - but I must point out that overall this is a miniscule percentage of the Indian population.
Jews came to India at different periods of human history because, for the most part, religious tolerance was part of Indian tradition. Two large waves of Jewish immigration were from Spain during the Inquisition and from Persia during a period of persecution. The Jewish refugees of Kerala were not only given political asylum, they were also encouraged to build a synagogue, and given land to establish their community and royal assistance to practice their religion.
When I came to the U.S. as a graduate student, a Jewish American friend said to me “No country has ever willingly accepted Jewish refugees.” I could point out that, in fact, at least one country had done so. Later, as a post-doctoral fellow at Johns Hopkins University, a wonderful engineering professor said in a lecture that the notion of “political asylum” was Western - as I pointed out to him later: no, not really.
One of the reasons for this, in my opinion, is that the dominant religion in India today, Hinduism, is fundamentally accepting of other religions and religious equality is an important Hindu tenet. A passing mention is made of this in CLIMBING THE STAIRS - that Hindus believe that every religion is really just a different path to the same ultimate goal, and (while it’s much misunderstood), Hindus also believe that there’s just one Supreme Being, but one who is worshipped in different ways by different religions.
Even in today’s India, there is a great deal of religious tolerance that coexists with the extremism and ethnic tension. The best modern example of India’s acceptance of refugees that I can think of is the political asylum that was given to the Dalai Lama of Tibet.
Vidya struggles with her father's commitment to nonviolence, and her brother's opinions regarding war, political struggle, and the concept of nonviolent protest. In many ways, both Gandhi and MLK Jr. have had their messages of nonviolent action and an active commitment to peace somewhat sanitized and replaced by a message of passivity. How do you see their philosophies, in what ways are they similar/different?
That’s a wonderful question. I’m not going to answer it directly, because - aha - I am building a website for the book that will soon go live, which has resources discussing this issue. Suffice it to say there were many similarities in their ideas. In fact, MLK Jr. speaks about how he was inspired by Mahatma Gandhi. And neither of them was passive - if you look at what they accomplished, that couldn’t have happened without a lot of action (and you are right, this is sometimes overlooked and peaceful resistance is considered “passive”).
At URI, where I work part-time as an adjunct professor of Oceanography and as the Director of Graduate Diversity, Dr. Barnard LaFayette, who was in charge of Rev. King’s Poor People’s Movement, is a distinguished scholar in residence. I am honored to know him. Together with other colleagues, we are exploring ways of using the Nonviolence debate in CLIMBING THE STAIRS as a teaching tool. If anyone is interested in knowing more about this project, I’m happy to share more information (my email contact is: uripadma at gmail dot com or padma at gso dot uri dot edu).
At one point Vidya says "You can't fight without hate. That's rubbish. Killing is wrong. That's all there is to it." and at another point "Violence is merely a reaction, never a real answer". However, there are no easy answers in the book.
Do you feel that CLIMBING THE STAIRS presents a particular point of view on this, and how did you come to that point of view, both as an author and in general? How did you make decisions regarding the nuances of principles of nonviolence, protest and rebellion, and the concepts of 'just war'. (Much of the debate is of course reminiscent of some of the arguments of today; not sure if you want to go there, but if you do want to touch on that, feel free!)
A reporter from the South County Independent asked me if I was thinking of the current situation in our nation today when I wrote CLIMBING THE STAIRS. I certainly wasn’t doing it consciously, but I do feel that one of the central questions in the book is really relevant in the current context. And I’m thrilled that some book clubs are discussing the book because they feel it raises an issue of importance today and because it doesn’t present one particular view on this.
Kitta and Vidya have very different points of view, and I really respect both of them as human beings. And their struggles are my struggles. Without providing easy answers, I dealt with the questions by creating two equally strong, equally respectable and respect-worthy characters who would clash and bring these issues to a head because their actions and choices and beliefs are different.
But I’m just as torn as they are about the principles of nonviolence. Is war sometimes inevitable? If we say yes, it sometimes is the only way to deal with a situation, then why is it that way - what is it about us as human beings that makes war inevitable, and can we change that about us, fundamentally, organically?
And I must add that while I admire the principles of nonviolence, I think soldiers who are willing to lay down their lives in the service of a cause they believe in are undoubtedly great heroes as well. My author’s note to CLIMBING THE STAIRS says that quite clearly, too, I hope!
I loved the way that the religious observances were woven throughout the book (especially appreciated the way that Vidya's reading and writing 'spark' was lit during the Deepavali festival). Also, much of Vidya's more authentic encounter with religions and faith is through text. One of the readings that she encounters, by Vivekanandha, mentions that the spiritual has been replaced by ritual. This is often a critique of many religious traditions, and I'm wondering how this plays out in India today. What role do you see issues of faith and spirituality playing in CLIMBING THE STAIRS, and in Indian culture today? How have they impacted your own life and careers?
My editor sent me an email a librarian had written to him, saying CLIMBING THE STAIRS was, “to my knowledge, the first young adult novel to explore the inner realities of the Hindu faith”. So thanks a lot for picking up on that thread, especially for asking about Vivekanandha - he’s one of my favorite Indian philosophers. On the website I’m building, I’m also creating links to the books in Thatha’s library!
Spirituality and philosophy are very important to me. Many Hindu rituals are beautiful and meaningful and certainly a part of my life and a rich ancient tradition that I hope to pass on to future generations because it is a part of my heritage. However, I am not one who unquestioningly obeys or feels obliged to defend every aspect of all Hindu customs and traditions. In the Bhagavad Gita, one of our religious texts (which has some aspects I disagree with), there is a poem attributed to God with a message I find very beautiful “…Yet you need not depend on articles of faith or expressions of worship; Those of you who see Me in everything and see everything in Me, to you I am ever present.”
In Indian culture today, the high degree of spirituality coexists with a high degree of ritual worship. I think that sometimes, people who haven’t grown up experiencing Indian culture find this duality very difficult - India is a country of intense contrast.
The caste system, and struggles of race, class, and ethnicity are a major part of the book. At one point, a character says "Brahmins have no place in the army. We were meant to be scholars, not soldiers." How did class and ethnic tensions affect you and/or your family? In writing, members of particular groups often struggle with the issue of "airing dirty laundry" -- how do you feel about this conflict, and did it affect your writing process in any way?
My family was, by and large, extremely broad-minded, as was the circle in which I grew up. I was educated in a Krishnamurthi School (Krishnamurti was an Indian philosopher who, among other things, had a very new way of looking at education). Looking back, I can see that this was quite a privilege. For many years I didn’t have any idea what “my caste” was, and even after I came to know it, only a vague idea of what caste was all about. Then, I learned about how privileged Hindus (my ancestors surely among them) had misinterpreted some religious ideals and manipulated Indian society. And that was a fact - so I don’t have a problem airing it - as Sam Coale recently said in a wonderful review of the novel in the Providence Journal, I guess I deal with this “matter-of factly: this is just what Brahmin Indian families and others did in 1941.”
On the other hand, I was also exposed to the Hindu tradition of debate - nuances of philosophy and spirituality as well as issues of social justice and politics were often discussed and argued by those around me. This found its way into CLIMBING THE STAIRS, and affected my writing process significantly because as the novel shows, I feel the process of questioning is far more important than a single answer that may seem to be “correct” to a particular individual at a given time.
Vidya is inspired by philosophers and writers, etc. Do those names still resonate in India today? Are there new ones? Also, there does seem to be a bit of a Western fetishizing of a perceived "Indian-ness", via Bollywood, Bhangra, meditation, the colour red, etc. Has this had any impact on your experiences as a writer, in the publication process, or in other areas of your life?
Some of the philosophers and writers Vidya speaks about are the “classic” English writers that were dominant during my mother’s teenage years. Nowadays, there are so many wonderful writers of Indian heritage: Jhumpa Lahiri, Amitav Gosh, Amartya Sen…I could go on and on, the list would fill pages. J. Krishnamurti is the first modern Indian philosopher that comes to mind….
A perceived Indian-ness…indeed…the greatest impact it has on me as a writer these days is that people tend to see me and because of their knowledge of India or what they see as “Indian” they conclude that I’m an “Indian woman” and stereotype me and decide they know what the book is about ( it must be about the experience of being an Indian woman, and nothing else). Well, as I’ll be blogging about this weekend, I’ve lived in 5 countries! And it’s really sad to me when people decide the novel is Indian. Well, it’s not.
CLIMBING THE STAIRS is an American book accepted by an American agent, polished by an American editor, published by an American publisher, marketed by American publicity agents and sales reps. My book launch party was at a wonderful American bookstore (The Other Tiger) and at the end of the month I’ll be at another wonderful American bookstore (Books on the Square).
CLIMBING THE STAIRS is a book about hope. Hope is the state motto of Rhode Island, the state I live in, where our home is.
CLIMBING THE STAIRS is, as the executive vice president of the Penguin Group honored me by so correctly pointing out, “a book about love, loss, and the power of one’s beliefs.” Well, here’s my belief about the novel: at the deepest level, the problems Vidya and Kitta struggle with are broad and universal - they transcend time, place, culture.
Yes, CLIMBING THE STAIRS is set in India. But it is a Rhode Island book. It is an American book. It is a global book.
Thanks so much, Padma! I'm looking forward to the next one.
Readers can purchase CLIMBING THE STAIRS at your local bookseller, or online at Powell's, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, or Booksense.
Hit all of the stops on Padma's Blog Book Tour! Learn more about the book, the author, her writing life and more:
Thursday, May 22nd. Overview of the book and the different themes in the book, questions/issues of current and historical relevance raised in CLIMBING THE STAIRS, and information about writing and publishing
Friday, May 23rd. Exploring issues of faith, culture and colonization in CLIMBING THE STAIRS; Gandhi and Martin Luther King at Olugbemisola Rhuday Perkovich’s blog.
Saturday, May 24th. Travel, living in different Indian cities and different countries, how this has influenced my writing.
Sunday, May 25th. Being a writing mom, finding time to write, parenthood and writing.
Monday, May 26th. Where were the British colonies during WWII? A few funky facts I unearthed while doing background research for CLIMBING THE STAIRS at author Laura Purdie Salas’ blog.
Tuesday, May 27th. CLIMBING THE STAIRS. The process of writing the novel, weaving together the different threads.
Wednesday, May 28th. Oceanography, research and CLIMBING THE STAIRS. Making my schizophrenia work to my advantage. My (at least two) personalities. What it’s like to spend your 21st birthday on a research vessel at author Greg Fishbone’s blog.
Thursday, May 29th. What exactly is that dot on the forehead all about? Arranged marriages, Women in India in the 1940’s, Indian marriages today, gender equality issues in CLIMBING THE STAIRS, anything else you ever wanted to know about India at author Carrie Jones’ blog.
Friday, May 30th. The grand finale. Moving to America, Becoming an American, Multicultural writing at author Mitali Perkins’s blog.
Links to online news and reviews:
http://www.projo.com/books/content/BOOK-CLIMBING-STAIRS_05-18-08_6HA2FQC_v7.b6a7bc.html
http://www.uri.edu/news/releases/index.php?id=4393
http://www.padmasbooks.com