Oh, no, how distressing for all concerned! Very glad Julian is fine. I sure hear you about people not knowing anything about the plants around them - once I was stuffing my face with yummy ripe mulberries, when a lady came by and told her kid they were poisonous. I told her if that was true, I'd have been dead for decades. What I taught MY kid was that any berry with drupelets is safe to eat; if it doesn't have drupelets, you have to ask first. Most adults don't even know what a drupelet is.
"the Kindergarten teachers, who didn't just ask Julian which part of the plant he ate, and/or didn't believe him."
One of my little girlies once may or may not have eaten a seed of Scotch broom. She was almost three; her five-year-old sister told on her for it (good girl!) but wasn't sure if she'd really eaten it or not. Poor little Theresa was afraid she was in trouble, so her story started switching: yes she had, no she hadn't.... and Scotch broom seeds are extremely toxic; the Poison Control Center told me that if she HAD eaten just one, by the time she started showing symptoms, it would be too late to save her. So I had to call her Mom home from work, and start the whole horrible syrup-of-Ipecac procedure, which I'm sure convinced Theresa never to play with Scotch broom seeds again, whether she'd really eaten one or not.
The point is, if I had believed her that she didn't eat one, and she really HAD, she probably would have died. Little children are not reliable narrators; very frequently they'll say what they wish was true, or what they think you want to hear. Don't be angry at Julian's teachers, dearheart; it was their proper duty not to believe a kindergarten child about something so crucial, regardless of how smart or honest he may ordinarily be. Nor at your mother-in-law either, because she did the right thing; just taking him home and keeping an eye on him would have been foolish and potentially lethal, because a lot of plant poisons don't cause symptoms until they've already caused irreparable damage to vital organs. Impatiens isn't one of those, but one can't expect everyone to be familiar with the effects of different toxic herbs - to most people, "poison" just means "will kill you", and that's usually all they need to know, even though it's not true in every case.
The simple solution is to tell your boys "no foraging at school", which is probably the school's rule already. You can explain that just because they know what's safe to eat doesn't mean the other kids do, who might copy them, eat the wrong thing (or be allergic,) and get very sick.
It astonishes me that people thought there could be dumbcane growing outdoors in your country. Dumbcane is a tropical plant, native to Africa, I believe - my mother used to have several of them. It doesn't look like anything anyone would want to eat; the only danger it poses is to crawling babies (or puppies) who might put a fallen leaf in their mouth.
Isn't Motherhood FUN? You learn such fascinating things, whether you wanted to or not! I'm sure looking forward to Grandmotherhood; I hear it's even more fun. And I bet your mother-in-law agrees! *hugs hugs*
*falling about laughing* My Lj just asked me, "Translate this page? - I'm, like, okay, because my German is not so good, but then I see it's also translated my English to 'English':"I sure hear you about the plants around them - once I was stuffing my face with yummy ripe mulberries when they were kidnapped. I told her that was true, I've been dead for decades." LOL, um, no.....
There is no actual "no foraging" rule! It's just an "don't eat unripe things or things you don't know". Since Julian knew Impatiens, he didn't strictly violate the rule.
They actually looked up the toxicity of Impatiens (they had the time for that), and found it written that the seeds are non-toxic, but as you say, kids often say what they think you want to hear rather than what's entirely true. But the same article stated that the rest of the plant is only mildly toxic. It's not the kind of plant where a single berry or a shred of a leaf can kill you.
The mother-in-law acted with the best intents, but certainly not "right". By now, I know that they asked her whether she wanted THEM to take Julian to hospital, or whether SHE wanted to do it. The correct answer would already have been "You do it": It takes her 30 minutes to get to the Kindergarten, and then 10 minutes to the hospital. The kindergarten teachers would have been at the hospital in 10 minutes. If you truly think the child is in danger, one should think you'd choose the faster option. THEN, apparently they told her that they already called Julian's pediatrician but that there was nobody there (the practice closes at 12 on wednesdays). Since the hospital in Wermelskirchen (where we live) doesn't have a children's unit, they advised her to go to the hospital in Remscheid (where the Kindergarten is). The mother-in-law, in her panic, just heard "pediatrician" and "hospital in Wermelskirchen" and NONE of the other, vaguely relevant information, so she drove to the Kindergarten... picked Julian up... drove him to his pediatrician... who was not there... drove to the local hospital... which has no children's unit... and THEN drove to the hospital in Remscheid. At this point, two hours had passed. If he actually had been in danger, this would certainly NOT have helped! Unfortunately, she often makes entirely irrational decisions when she gets flustered. Taking five minutes to think things through - or to ask them to repeat what they said if she didn't manage to catch or process it all - would've saved everyone (including herself) so much stress. But that's a problem of her generation: NEVER admit that you have weaknesses! NEVER admit that you don't know what to do! NEVER be a burden or society will get rid of you! ...
Anyway, I did indeed tell Julian not to forage in Kindergarten anymore. Not even the woodland strawberries.
I don't know whether dumbcane is from Africa or South America, but it's definitely not likely to grow in the wild here! Even if somebody threw out some potted plants, they'd freeze in winter. So it astonished me, too.
Yeah. Great fun. This is the kind of story that I'll tell at first meetings with future romantic partners. >:P
What a fiasco! You're quite right; if the teachers looked up Impatiens, they surely must have seen that even if he did eat the leaves, the worst he could get was a bellyache.
Where I live, we have quite a few plants of which a single berry or shred of a leaf can kill a child - which is why I taught my own child what she could eat and what was poison from the time she could walk. In the case of ingested toxic plants, it's necessary to immediately induce vomiting before they start breaking down in the stomach and releasing their toxins. (Inducing vomiting does more harm than good when the substance ingested was a caustic substance that will burn coming back up and possibly be aspirated.) True indeed, if Julian had eaten a plant toxic enough to require medical attention, the school should have taken him immediately to the Emergency Room, not waited around for someone to come and take him.
Maybe there's someone less easily flustered than your mother-in-law, who could be the Emergency Contact for your boys? I always had mutual Emergency Contact and Medical Consent arrangements with other parents who lived nearby, since few of us had relatives living close enough to be any help. Your MIL wouldn't have to know she was no longer your chosen first responder.
It's a hard thing, to ask a child of the forest to pass by woodland strawberries, when foraging is not actually against the school rules. On the other hand, eating plants off the ground of a well-tramped schoolyard is a good way to pick up pathogens or parasites - there are cleaner places to forage in.
Yikes, it's WAY too soon to think about your sons' future romantic partners! I'm still reeling from the fact that conuly's wee girlies are in high school now. But you're right; it'll be a great story, and no doubt you'll have plenty more before First Date comes around. *hugs* Enjoy!
We have a few of those too (like foxglove or nightshade), which I have indeed taught my children to identify and avoid. Presumably, if he had eaten one of those, they would have called an ambulance immediately. (At any rate, that's what I asked them to do in the future - should such a thing ever happen again! Now they'll probably call the ambulance the next time he eats something harmless!)
I've also asked them to call Jörg's and my places of work in the case of a future emergency before calling the mother-in-law. We may not answer our mobiles at work, but both his company and my school have secretaries, who will definitely find us if necessary. Then we can decide whether we want to get the MIL involved (she's closer to the Kindergarten, so if it's just about picking him up, she could still help), or whether we want to authorise the teachers to get him to the hospital, or whatever.
Julian has promised not to forage in Kindergarten anymore, and I hope he'll remember that!
Sounds like you've got all the bases covered! I bet Julian does remember, and if he just can't resist eating a strawberry, he'll do it on the sly.
When I was a kid, I ate yew berries all the time. They're listed as 'extremely toxic', and that's true of the seeds, but the sweet outer fruit is safe. Well hey, apricot seeds are poison too; so are apple seeds, though you'd have to eat a lot of them - but if my teachers had caught me eating yew berries, they wouldn't have asked if I spit out the seeds, or even known that that mattered; they would have just freaked out.
We've got foxglove and woody nightshade AKA bittersweet) here too - both invasive, not native. Foxglove doesn't look very edible, and woody nightshade berries aren't highly toxic; also I bet they're bitter, though I haven't sampled any. That's the good thing; most toxic plants don't taste very nice - still, some kids will eat anything.
I'd love to see schools go with 'edible landscaping' - fruit and nut trees, berry bushes, plots of cherry tomatoes and sugar peas - so the children could go a-foraging for healthy snacks whenever they wished. One of the most important lessons is that food comes out of the earth, not from a factory. Too bad not all teachers are teaching that!
I certainly hope so. Yesterday he brought home some peppermint leaves. But he hadn't eaten them, just picked them, so I guess that's something.
Yup, that's exactly why I haven't told my kids (or even the husband) that the "flesh" of yew berries is edible. Too risky that the wrong people see it (or copy it and do eat the seeds).
We've got black nightshade and deadly nightshade, which are rather worse than woody nightshade. The problem is that the berries have a sweetish taste, and look like black cherries, so children can and will try them unless they know better.
The redcurrant story I mentioned above actually happened in a school garden, which really makes you wonder. Our school has a plot of land that was meant to be used for some basic kitchen gardening, but due to differences with the city council, it hasn't been used in a couple of years. *sigh*
"the Kindergarten teachers, who didn't just ask Julian which part of the plant he ate, and/or didn't believe him."
One of my little girlies once may or may not have eaten a seed of Scotch broom. She was almost three; her five-year-old sister told on her for it (good girl!) but wasn't sure if she'd really eaten it or not. Poor little Theresa was afraid she was in trouble, so her story started switching: yes she had, no she hadn't.... and Scotch broom seeds are extremely toxic; the Poison Control Center told me that if she HAD eaten just one, by the time she started showing symptoms, it would be too late to save her. So I had to call her Mom home from work, and start the whole horrible syrup-of-Ipecac procedure, which I'm sure convinced Theresa never to play with Scotch broom seeds again, whether she'd really eaten one or not.
The point is, if I had believed her that she didn't eat one, and she really HAD, she probably would have died. Little children are not reliable narrators; very frequently they'll say what they wish was true, or what they think you want to hear. Don't be angry at Julian's teachers, dearheart; it was their proper duty not to believe a kindergarten child about something so crucial, regardless of how smart or honest he may ordinarily be. Nor at your mother-in-law either, because she did the right thing; just taking him home and keeping an eye on him would have been foolish and potentially lethal, because a lot of plant poisons don't cause symptoms until they've already caused irreparable damage to vital organs. Impatiens isn't one of those, but one can't expect everyone to be familiar with the effects of different toxic herbs - to most people, "poison" just means "will kill you", and that's usually all they need to know, even though it's not true in every case.
The simple solution is to tell your boys "no foraging at school", which is probably the school's rule already. You can explain that just because they know what's safe to eat doesn't mean the other kids do, who might copy them, eat the wrong thing (or be allergic,) and get very sick.
It astonishes me that people thought there could be dumbcane growing outdoors in your country. Dumbcane is a tropical plant, native to Africa, I believe - my mother used to have several of them. It doesn't look like anything anyone would want to eat; the only danger it poses is to crawling babies (or puppies) who might put a fallen leaf in their mouth.
Isn't Motherhood FUN? You learn such fascinating things, whether you wanted to or not! I'm sure looking forward to Grandmotherhood; I hear it's even more fun. And I bet your mother-in-law agrees! *hugs hugs*
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LOL, um, no.....
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They actually looked up the toxicity of Impatiens (they had the time for that), and found it written that the seeds are non-toxic, but as you say, kids often say what they think you want to hear rather than what's entirely true. But the same article stated that the rest of the plant is only mildly toxic. It's not the kind of plant where a single berry or a shred of a leaf can kill you.
The mother-in-law acted with the best intents, but certainly not "right". By now, I know that they asked her whether she wanted THEM to take Julian to hospital, or whether SHE wanted to do it. The correct answer would already have been "You do it": It takes her 30 minutes to get to the Kindergarten, and then 10 minutes to the hospital. The kindergarten teachers would have been at the hospital in 10 minutes. If you truly think the child is in danger, one should think you'd choose the faster option.
THEN, apparently they told her that they already called Julian's pediatrician but that there was nobody there (the practice closes at 12 on wednesdays). Since the hospital in Wermelskirchen (where we live) doesn't have a children's unit, they advised her to go to the hospital in Remscheid (where the Kindergarten is).
The mother-in-law, in her panic, just heard "pediatrician" and "hospital in Wermelskirchen" and NONE of the other, vaguely relevant information, so she drove to the Kindergarten... picked Julian up... drove him to his pediatrician... who was not there... drove to the local hospital... which has no children's unit... and THEN drove to the hospital in Remscheid. At this point, two hours had passed. If he actually had been in danger, this would certainly NOT have helped! Unfortunately, she often makes entirely irrational decisions when she gets flustered. Taking five minutes to think things through - or to ask them to repeat what they said if she didn't manage to catch or process it all - would've saved everyone (including herself) so much stress.
But that's a problem of her generation: NEVER admit that you have weaknesses! NEVER admit that you don't know what to do! NEVER be a burden or society will get rid of you! ...
Anyway, I did indeed tell Julian not to forage in Kindergarten anymore. Not even the woodland strawberries.
I don't know whether dumbcane is from Africa or South America, but it's definitely not likely to grow in the wild here! Even if somebody threw out some potted plants, they'd freeze in winter. So it astonished me, too.
Yeah. Great fun. This is the kind of story that I'll tell at first meetings with future romantic partners. >:P
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Where I live, we have quite a few plants of which a single berry or shred of a leaf can kill a child - which is why I taught my own child what she could eat and what was poison from the time she could walk. In the case of ingested toxic plants, it's necessary to immediately induce vomiting before they start breaking down in the stomach and releasing their toxins. (Inducing vomiting does more harm than good when the substance ingested was a caustic substance that will burn coming back up and possibly be aspirated.) True indeed, if Julian had eaten a plant toxic enough to require medical attention, the school should have taken him immediately to the Emergency Room, not waited around for someone to come and take him.
Maybe there's someone less easily flustered than your mother-in-law, who could be the Emergency Contact for your boys? I always had mutual Emergency Contact and Medical Consent arrangements with other parents who lived nearby, since few of us had relatives living close enough to be any help. Your MIL wouldn't have to know she was no longer your chosen first responder.
It's a hard thing, to ask a child of the forest to pass by woodland strawberries, when foraging is not actually against the school rules. On the other hand, eating plants off the ground of a well-tramped schoolyard is a good way to pick up pathogens or parasites - there are cleaner places to forage in.
Yikes, it's WAY too soon to think about your sons' future romantic partners! I'm still reeling from the fact that conuly's wee girlies are in high school now. But you're right; it'll be a great story, and no doubt you'll have plenty more before First Date comes around. *hugs* Enjoy!
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I've also asked them to call Jörg's and my places of work in the case of a future emergency before calling the mother-in-law. We may not answer our mobiles at work, but both his company and my school have secretaries, who will definitely find us if necessary. Then we can decide whether we want to get the MIL involved (she's closer to the Kindergarten, so if it's just about picking him up, she could still help), or whether we want to authorise the teachers to get him to the hospital, or whatever.
Julian has promised not to forage in Kindergarten anymore, and I hope he'll remember that!
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When I was a kid, I ate yew berries all the time. They're listed as 'extremely toxic', and that's true of the seeds, but the sweet outer fruit is safe. Well hey, apricot seeds are poison too; so are apple seeds, though you'd have to eat a lot of them - but if my teachers had caught me eating yew berries, they wouldn't have asked if I spit out the seeds, or even known that that mattered; they would have just freaked out.
We've got foxglove and woody nightshade AKA bittersweet) here too - both invasive, not native. Foxglove doesn't look very edible, and woody nightshade berries aren't highly toxic; also I bet they're bitter, though I haven't sampled any. That's the good thing; most toxic plants don't taste very nice - still, some kids will eat anything.
I'd love to see schools go with 'edible landscaping' - fruit and nut trees, berry bushes, plots of cherry tomatoes and sugar peas - so the children could go a-foraging for healthy snacks whenever they wished. One of the most important lessons is that food comes out of the earth, not from a factory. Too bad not all teachers are teaching that!
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Yup, that's exactly why I haven't told my kids (or even the husband) that the "flesh" of yew berries is edible. Too risky that the wrong people see it (or copy it and do eat the seeds).
We've got black nightshade and deadly nightshade, which are rather worse than woody nightshade. The problem is that the berries have a sweetish taste, and look like black cherries, so children can and will try them unless they know better.
The redcurrant story I mentioned above actually happened in a school garden, which really makes you wonder. Our school has a plot of land that was meant to be used for some basic kitchen gardening, but due to differences with the city council, it hasn't been used in a couple of years. *sigh*
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