Barry 04x05 live discussion + Bill Hader discusses THAT moment from episode 4
Click to view• Barry is back to fuck us all up on this fine Sunday night. Episode five is named "Tricky Legacies" and is written and directed by Bill Hader. The synopsis for tonight's episode reads like a warning: "Things have changed."
• Bill Hader talked about [Spoiler (click to open)]the decision to kill Cristobal and the apparent time jump at the end of episode 4 on The Prestige TV Podcast:
[hader on the prestige tv pod]
• The absence of Barry in this episode was completely intentional, and is more about the characters reacting to the news and the audience feeling the tension of his absence.
• Hader is asked about NoHo Hank and Cristobal's love story coming to its tragic end. He says that when he came into the writers room to discuss Critobal's death he got a lot of pushback from his fellow writers.
• "I said, 'I think Cristobal's going to have to die, and I think Hank's gotta be responsible for it.' And uh, they...with the exception of [staff writer] Duffy [Boudreau], fought me on it. It was one of those things where I left the room so they could all vent, and I came back in and it was pitches of 'Can't Cristobal be a kept man, like he's part of this new regime, but he's unhappy?' and I was like, 'Would Cristobal do that? I don't think Cristobal's that kind of person.'"
• He goes on to add, "I said, 'For where this needs to go, if Hank is trying to be a tough guy...this is what comes with it. It's kind of what Barry learned in season one when Chris died...It's like, 'I wanna be a badass, I wanna be a strong man, I wanna do this and this whole idea of 'We can have both things' and you can't."
• Hader says that from the beginning of season 4, Cristobal and Hank were going to try and recapture what they had in season 2, but with a Hank that has survived what happened at the end of season 3.
• The first few scenes featuring Hank and Cristobal were designed to be a misdirect, where Hank was more concerned about the threat from Batir and the elders than worried about Barry.
• Hank thinks that he can strong arm Cristobal, and their final conversation is pent up frustration and resentment that's been building up inside Hank since Santa Fe.
• He talks about framing of this shot against the windows of the house fo Hank looks like he has wings, like he's the angel of death in a way.
• Hader says that they did seven takes of Hank on the couch after Cristobal leaves the room and that Anthony Carrigan's performance is one of the best pieces of acting he's ever seen.
• Cristobal saying "it's done" at the end of his last scene is meant to echo Janice Moss's last words to Barry in season one, another intentional way of lining Hank up with Barry.
• He recalls that the night they shot this scene was one of the first times it really hit people that it was the final season of the show. He says that shooting this scene was very moving and the crew was very quiet, and that it was very emotional.
• Podcast host Sean Fennessey brings up the fandom that has built up around Cristobal and NoHo Hank's relationship and Hader just says that this death needed to happen for the sake of the story, and that it will have big ramifications later on in the season. He also adds that he thinks the death is earned, and hopes that fans will realize that it's not just to shock people.
• They move on to talk about Sally, and how the show captures the ebb and flow of a Hollywood career.
• Hader mentions that Ali Wong came up with the name "Mega Girls", the movie that Sally is coaching Kristen for. It needed to be a lazy name, and something Sally would find "deplorable" to make her sneakily auditioning for it kinda sad.
• They discuss how Sally wants someone to see her talent and tell her she's great, and Kristen just wants Sally around to help her reach that next level, and Sian Heder and the executive (representing Hollywood as a whole) want Sally around so that she can mold more "palatable" women into good actresses.
• Hader says, "Sally is super talented, attractive, the whole thing. And that was a thing that was interesting living in LA for a while. You would see those people and you're like, 'How are you not working?'"
• He goes on to say, "You'll see crazy, good looking guy who had a small part in a TV show and you're like, 'Wow, that guy was amazing, he's gonna blow up.' And then I've had the experience of going and that guy is catering a private party and that happens. And that's not saying having those catering jobs is bad...but a lot of this is luck. I mean...it is never lost on me that I happened to come to the attention of Lorne Michaels a season or two after Jimmy Fallon left. And they [were] like, 'It'd be great to have a guy who did impressions like that on the show,' and that's just luck. If they had someone else like that and I was trying to get on, I would not have been on that show. It's a lot of stupid luck."
• Hader says that one of the most important things about Sally, at least in terms of arcs following her acting career, is that she can't be a victim. She always has to be herself, even while she's helping Kristen and trying to steal the role.
• They move on to talk about Gene and how he blew up all the goodwill he had at the beginning of the season so fast, and in pursuit of fame. Hader says that he's afraid of one son (Barry) and he ends up shooting his real son, who he should be having the real relationship with.
• They talk a bit more about some of the other aspects of the episode, like how the helicopter that is "hovering" over many scenes and even drowns out Kristen in her last scene with Sally is supposed to represent Barry. Hader talks a bit about how he directed that final Sally/Kristen scene, telling Sarah Goldberg to treat that moment as Sally saying goodbye to acting. In a way Sally made up her mind to run away with Barry once she heard he had escaped.
• The scene with Barry coming out of the darkness in his and Sally's apartment was one of the first scenes they shot for the season, as they had to get rid of the set to make room for new ones.
• He says that Sally already knows Barry is there, and that the room Barry comes out of is the same one that Sally almost backed into completely at the end of season 3. He adds that initially it was going to be a longer scene, but Hader realized there was nothing else the two needed to say to each other.
• He also adds that there was a discussion on including scenes of Sally and Barry escaping the apartment, but at the bottom line he just didn't really care about all of that. He was more intrigued by the cut to black and the following scene of the two boys fighting.
• The eight year time jump is real, that he has always wanted Barry and Sally to have a child, and for Barry to get what he wants. But he adds that Barry is still Barry and that "denial" is still a major theme eight years on.
• There's also the idea of, "What if we show these characters getting what they wanted. What if we show them actually putting on, playing...cause the acting idea went away, but this idea of playing a part to be able to live with yourself and try to get a version of what it is you want, and can they hang onto that."
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