Joaquin Phoenix honors the late Heath Ledger while accepting SAG Award

[queenursula]

"I'm standing here on the shoulders of my favorite actor Heath Ledger." Joaquin Phoenix thanks the late #DarkKnight star while accepting the #SAGAwards statue for #Joker https://t.co/tD2ozkArqi pic.twitter.com/k9q8hwFFrM
- The Hollywood Reporter (@THR) January 20, 2020
In his award speech for winning best actor at the SAG Awards Joaquin Phoenix paid

Comments

[champagnexdream]

Thanking Heath should've been 99% of his speech tbh, without his Joker portrayal this movie never would've happened.

And now instead of being known as the best Joker, Heath's legacy is, "MAYBE the best Joker IDK, this dude did a pretty good impression 12 years later with the platform of an entire solo film"

[queenursula]

"without his Joker portrayal this movie never would've happened."

Heath was great but Joker's an incredibly iconic character so I doubt that this film would have never happened without him. If Nolan's trilogy never existed someone else would have come along at some point and we would be talking about another Joker the same way people were talking about Jack Nicholson before Ledger. IMO this owes more to The Killing Joke.

[champagnexdream]

Did you see it? Joaquin was great in it, truly, but his portrayal was basically what I believe Heath would've been able to do with more screentime. It didn't offer a lot of new characterization - just backstory that wasn't possible in the Dark Knight, that allowed the character to have a bigger story.

It seems unfair, considering how Heath sort of redefined the Joker after Jack Nicholson. He paved the way for a full movie to be made about that specific kind of Joker, and his accolades will be forgotten more so now because of Joaquin's protagonist opportunity. It was a huge risk that took a big emotional toll on Heath, and it seems like a lot of that is going to be washed away. Much different from just "someone else played this character," as Leto did after Heath. The backlash over Leto's Joker made it clear that someone had to mimic Heath to get attention, and it sucks. I am glad Joaquin acknowledged Heath in his speech, but it sucks.

[queenursula]

I did see it and I didn't see Heath Ledger's Joker in Joaquin at all. If anything my problem was that Joaquin didn't come off like the Joker that much period.

Also Heath's Joker will always be a watershed moment. I don't see anyone forgetting or thinking less of his performance. It would be like people forgetting about Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal because of Mads Mikkelsen.

[champagnexdream]

Yeah, the difference is that Joaquin will likely get a sequel to show more of the transformation and then that issue you have might be solved, whereas Heath got so little time to do so much. And I feel like 12 years just wasn't long enough between the two movies.

I hope you're right about him not being forgotten. I loved him sfm and I remember even on here when he was cast and people were like "WTF?" and I caped for him from the beginning. :[ I can't believe it's been 12 years since he died.

[peasantings]

There would have been more Jokers with or without Heath. As long as they are making Batman movies, they’re going to be making movies about Joker. And with that would be arguments about who was best - which was already happening before Joaquin.

[champagnexdream]

Absolutely, but they've all been pretty unique portrayals. IMHO, Joaquin's was not. He was amazing, but he was Heath's Joker with more time to make it a bigger story, and I think he knows that.

[peasantings]

I think they’re pretty different. Heath’s Joker basically avoids trying to give him a tragic backstory to make him more dangerous. Joaquin’s is all about that tragic backstory. They are different stages in a story. One of my biggest problems with Joaquin’s performance is that it barely seems like Joker at all.

Edit: Also giving Joker a tragic backstory goes against character history, and is also something I dislike about Joker. Putting that into The Dark Knight would have weakened the film IMO.

[champagnexdream]

I think my problem is that Heath just never got the chance to be the one to make the bigger movie because he died and someone else is getting the acclaim for a version of the character he made canon, if that makes sense. Like if he was still around, maybe he would've been the one cast in a prequel spin-off of Nolan's movies instead, but Joaquin is getting that credit instead.

IA it didn't fit at all into the Dark Knight, but I do think this movie's backstory could've easily fit Heath's Joker, and that the actual portrayals are really similar. Darker, less clowny, more tragic/focused on mental health.

[cecilia_tallis]

now this all got me wondering how Joaquin might have been able to tweak the character to make it more his..

[trancexperiment]

Joaquin had a good pre-Joker performance, but Heath was still the best Joker.

[champagnexdream]

IA, I just think Heath didn't get the chance to HAVE that pre-Joker part and that's the shittiness.

[jellycar]

yess I haven’t seen Joker yet but I like this logic

[pinkkchocolate]

Heath did in a supporting role what Joaquin needed a whole a movie for

[champagnexdream]

Exactly. Like...I feel like Heath winning a Best Supporting Actor Oscar is going to be pushed aside in memory when Joaquin no doubt wins Best Actor next month. Not necessarily forgotten

And like...Heath's win was a huge moment. Like not only by being posthumous, but because it was for a portrayal of a fucking DC villain, you know? But Best Actor > Best Supporting Actor, and I'm just annoyed about it because IMO Joaquin's Joker was very similar, just expanded.

[jellycar]

mte, Heaths win was a huge deal and I’m worried that’s gonna be erased by Joaquin winning bc supporting <