Ok so... I think the episode would have been greatly improved if Lagertha hadn't been the one to propose peace. I know Hirst wants her to be a lot of things, like compassionate and also strong, but everything she said to Ivar, if it was honestly meant to be a plea for peace, was so hamhanded and ridiculous that it makes Lagertha look clueless. However it's absolutely fine if Lagertha cares more about asserting her power over peace/the greater good or anything like that.
Alfred annoys me. Goddamn, he annoys me so much.
I hate myself but I prefer the Harald/Astrid dynamic to Lagertha/Astrid.
That look Margrethe gave as she saw Ubbe and Torvi walking side by side was so sad.
Loved Ivar's petty, dramatic ass pretending to be remorseful and then throwing his drink in Ubbe's face, amazing.
I think Lagertha is just being hypocritical which I don't necessarily mind tbh lol
Alfred currently is my least favourite part of the show. We get it, you're destined to be King/do great things pfff no1curr (I also keep confusing him with Torvi's oldest son face wise, at least for a sec, before I realize that Alfred couldn't possibly be involved in the current vikings sl)
I don't mind her being hypocritical, but normally there's a reasoning behinds someone's hypocrisy. For example, I don't see anything wrong with Lagertha seeing Ivar as a usurper but herself as the rightful queen, but that's different from her actions not making sense for her motivations.
if you accept hypocrisy I'm not sure what's not making sense? She's wanting power and she's feeling entitled.
I do think there's a stretch wrt her expecting Ivar to actually let go of his revenge for his mother, but that also fits with her not being particuarly surprised (although also not rly pleased) with how he turned around their little peace drinking fest by throwing his mead in Ubbe's face.
I meant that, if she really wanted peace, even if she didn't expect peace, did she really think that what she was saying would be effective in convincing Ivar to choose peace. I'm fine with her thinking she's the rightful queen, being entitled, but that doesn't mean I think that Lagertha would be so stupid/undiplomatic as to continually say shit that would only further inflame Ivar towards war. It's not the hypocrisy that's the issue for me, it's that it just did not make sense, that she would ask for peace and then say shit that obviously was undermining her cause, regardless of whether she believed it or not.
Well, I don't think it matters if she inflames Ivar more. It was already war or him conceding to terms he was very unlikely to ever concede to. Also on a purely human perspective I do think people often can't help themselves when they argue against someone. Their ego just takes over and they end up making points that are counter productive. (I'm assuming you mean the "win or lose, you'll lose" part of the convo?)
In terms of people I think there's a very very very wide range of actions that "make sense" IMO. That obviously doesn't mean we have to like it as viewers though.
TBH I mean the whole convo, like, every time her sons made a plea to Ivar from the family side she would start up from a completely different angle.
IDK whether it matters if she inflames Ivar more, I just think if Lagertha was going to try for peace, then she would actually try. Like, I think what gets me, is that to me, it implies that she's so insecure and ego-driven at this point that it happens without prompting. I could see it if someone said something that was insulting to her or undermined her, but Ivar didn't say shit during the whole thing. Like, if he has said "I must overthrow the usurper" and Lagertha's ego took over, absolutely fine, I'd get it. But is she really at the point where this happens independent of the context?
This sounds really long and angry but ultimately I just like... wanting there to be something that prompted Lagertha into that zone lmao
Yeah, there really was nothing prompting this from her and I think this is where our interpretations of the character diverge somewhat, because I think for the most part Lagertha is just very aware of the threats to her position rn. There are multiple ones and she's been shown to react all of them inv arious ways previously to this episode and her interactions with Ivar, like her threats to Margrethe or even when she raped Harald. She IS insecure, whether with good reason or not is debatable I suppose, but it's been part of her storyline all season. And she KNOWS Ivar wants to kill her, so I don't think he needs to say anything to provoke her int hat way. Doesn't mean she's right ofc, but that's how I see her perspective and her own rationalisations.
Your post didn't come off as angry at all! I kind of get where you're coming from even if my POV diverges, so I hope *I'm* not coming off as aggressive or anything, I'm just trying to explain how I see it myself :)
Oh, I don't think it's without cause at all and I don't think it's about being right or wrong at all. I guess, I'm just having a hard time seeing if Lagertha is at that point, with Margrethe I kind of understood it, because there weren't real stakes involved. But with Ivar there are real stakes involved so if she's really at that point where she can't stop herself even when she needs to, is she really at that point. It's that kind of thing, but I also see POV of how she could be at that point.
You're not coming off as aggressive at all! I think I rant too much lol, and I worry that it comes off as angry, I'm not angry I just have trouble collecting my thoughts lol.
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Alfred annoys me. Goddamn, he annoys me so much.
I hate myself but I prefer the Harald/Astrid dynamic to Lagertha/Astrid.
That look Margrethe gave as she saw Ubbe and Torvi walking side by side was so sad.
Loved Ivar's petty, dramatic ass pretending to be remorseful and then throwing his drink in Ubbe's face, amazing.
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Alfred currently is my least favourite part of the show. We get it, you're destined to be King/do great things pfff no1curr (I also keep confusing him with Torvi's oldest son face wise, at least for a sec, before I realize that Alfred couldn't possibly be involved in the current vikings sl)
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I do think there's a stretch wrt her expecting Ivar to actually let go of his revenge for his mother, but that also fits with her not being particuarly surprised (although also not rly pleased) with how he turned around their little peace drinking fest by throwing his mead in Ubbe's face.
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In terms of people I think there's a very very very wide range of actions that "make sense" IMO. That obviously doesn't mean we have to like it as viewers though.
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IDK whether it matters if she inflames Ivar more, I just think if Lagertha was going to try for peace, then she would actually try. Like, I think what gets me, is that to me, it implies that she's so insecure and ego-driven at this point that it happens without prompting. I could see it if someone said something that was insulting to her or undermined her, but Ivar didn't say shit during the whole thing. Like, if he has said "I must overthrow the usurper" and Lagertha's ego took over, absolutely fine, I'd get it. But is she really at the point where this happens independent of the context?
This sounds really long and angry but ultimately I just like... wanting there to be something that prompted Lagertha into that zone lmao
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Your post didn't come off as angry at all! I kind of get where you're coming from even if my POV diverges, so I hope *I'm* not coming off as aggressive or anything, I'm just trying to explain how I see it myself :)
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You're not coming off as aggressive at all! I think I rant too much lol, and I worry that it comes off as angry, I'm not angry I just have trouble collecting my thoughts lol.
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