Black Sails: On Eleanor - "The girl that makes sure no more women die the way [her] mother died“
A while back, Hannah New spoke to Fathoms Deep podcast about her character Eleanor Guthrie, bisexual queen of thieves, on Black Sails.
Notes and Timestamps!
6:30 Eleanor doesn't allow the audience to see her vulnerability until very late in the story; she's ego-driven and determined because she believes that realizing her vision will heal the trauma she experienced during the Rosario raids, which saw her mother killed by the Spanish. When her mother told her that Nassau wasn't a place for a girl, little Eleanor didn't understand what she really meant and defiantly decided to become „the girl that makes sure no more women die the way [her] mother died.“
8:25 Flint's story of Odysseus in S1 was „the catalyst for everything she does“, and he's the one she trusts doubtlessly to carry on her vision for Nassau. She's only ever known conflict and his tale of finding peace deeply resonated with her. Flint represents a quality of mercy to her, which he shows when he grants her that last moment of peace before her death. Hannah feels that Flint is able to step outside of himself & his own ego at times unlike the other pirates.
12:10 Flint is a sort of father figure to Eleanor, but at the same time they had a moment (the infamous straight-bait scene in 107) in which they might have tipped into a destructive, ill-considered intimacy that Flint thankfully rejected. „With all her daddy issues, I'm sure Freud would have a lot to say[.]“
16:10 Eleanor is driven by so much fear of abandonment that she could never allow herself to truly love or be loved; and the relationship with Rogers is a last attempt at that. Simultaneously, she ended up dedicating herself to the idea of Rogers, ignorant of the truth of who he is.
17:30 London fundamentally changed her; she endured public humiliation, stared death in the face, and had to witness for the first time British society at its root. The experience of „the might of facing a court“ was traumatizing, even if it was a court she refuses to recognize as legitimate. She was ready to martyr herself for piracy and would have been a nightmare for her defense counsel: „Yeah, I did that. And I did that. And this.“ -“Shut up! Just shut up!“ Getting a second chance from Rogers completely blindsided her, „her moment of surrendering herself to what the universe was presenting in front of her.“
23:00 Luke Roberts' scripts were full of notes and everyone else would try extra hard to measure up to that immense prep-work. Hannah praises how intensely nuanced his performance is; how even early on there was actually a lot of darkness that she didn't catch, just like Eleanor didn't.
28:40 Set-design: Eleanor's office. The birdcage is symbolic of her status in Nassau. Hannah states that it's something left by her mother, and how meaningful it is that there is never a bird in it. Eleanor's little golden cage; she carries the keys around at all times and locks herself in to sleep at night, essentially hoarding the most valuable loot of the day right there with her. She keeps many objects from all over the world because she's essentially living at the hub of globalisation while never having left Nassau. An eternal mystery to Hannah is a stuffed ferret that set-dressers put there.
34:00 Eleanor pouring leftover drinks back into the pitchers & selling the dregs back to the pirates. Shows her everyday life as a businesswoman and pragmatist.
35:50 Hannah and Hakeem Kae-Kazim are very close; he became a paternal mentor and she's close with his whole family.
39:00 Eleanor's death is symbolic of her way of living, grappling with what's at hand to deal with the immediate situation. She's not a warrior; her only way of surviving and achieving things is to be cunning and manipulative. Eleanor still kept asking the showrunners for a sword; eventually the weapon department designed a dagger to go in her boot; unfortunately, that was after S2, and in S3 she doesn't wear boots anymore. She did get to handle a sword during her last fight though, and Jessica Parker-Kennedy finally got to ride a horse in the same season after asking for it all the time.
44:55 Other characters have singular moments of backstory being told; Eleanor doesn't. She personally never shares it, and she doesn't have the awareness of the moments that defined her forever. It's childhood memories whose power she can't truly understand until much later.
45:15 Eleanor tried forever to get her father's approval, even she knew he didn't love her; then his death took that opportunity forever away. This fuels her anger at Vane; he's arrogant enough to presume that his approval and validation would be enough for her, that he can simply swoop in and give her what her father always denied her. She eventually decides to kill him as a matter of survival; not only out of revenge, but because she realizes he was bleeding her dry and taking away all the validation she gets from elsewhere.
50:15 Hannah wasn't convinced of Eleanor at first, would people believe this boss-ass woman in that historic world? Then she researched the women that never made it into history books but that crucially kept everything running since forever; read up on Ching-Shih, Grace O'Malley, found out that women were running most taverns and keeping society running while men were out murdering each other.
52:55 Piracy greatly influenced globalisation, creating certain amounts of trade hubs, while also hindering empires from branching out without hindrance. Goes on to talk of imperialism; you can't roll up somewhere and invade and exploit a country, then expect to never hear back from those places.
1:06:00 After Silver spent an episode chained to Eleanor's couch, Hannah could never look at the couch the same way again.
1:06:45 Talks about Silver's missing leg and Luke Arnold's physical commitment to the role. He was in constant pain from having to work with the crutch. He and most of the crew also stopped eating for a while preparing for the doldrums (303), which drove others batty because they'd get incredibly grumpy on-set. „Oh bloody hell, just eat a boilt egg, you're driving us nuts!“ Toby Stephens gave it a go and couldn't be bothered, is simply too talented to need all that.
1:08:30 Gushes about Toby Stephens being amazing: „Jesus, I've seen someone at the pinnacle of their game.“ He set the bar for everyone and elevated everyone's performances; nobody dares to bitch and moan around him.
1:09:55 The one person who really „saw“ Eleanor was Max. She was able to understand her and emulate her in a productive way. Praises Jess's ability of Max being incredibly stoic and flat on the surface; she never lets on to her true feelings but calmly presents what she's been mulling over in the depths for a long time. Max is very self-analytical and hard on herself, whereas Elenaor never questions herself or apologizes. There are two major events that force her to look outside herself: her imprisonment in London and her pregnancy.
1:15:35 Vane adored an idea he had of her; whereas Max saw her for herself and loved her. Eleanor understands Max acts for her own survival but never to control Eleanor; there's an equality in their relationship that is never present with Vane. (Although she says there is a „purity in the passion“ she has for Vane.)
1:18:35 Vane/Eleanor sex scenes were always very specifically choreographed for every move to have a meaning; they're jockeying for a position even during sex; during sex with Vane she always assures that her own pleasure is prioritized rather than being passive for him. She learnt from Max to find comfort in and take charge of her physical experience. Max is very nurturing, whereas Vane/Eleanor is all about „I can take what I want, because I know you'll also take what you want, we both can take it.“
1:25:10 When Eleanor crawls towards Madi she already knows she's dying; but she has seen the way Madi handles herself, the pirates, Eleanor, she knows that Madi must live and lead. They were very similar in personality but Madi grew up with a mother, which Eleanor always lacked after their separation. It's no coincidence that she tells Vane he is “all that lacks a mother's love“ in prison, projecting her own demons onto him. By contrast, Max has also suffered abandonment but is still incredibly capable of being loving, giving and maternal. „Each individual backstory of Eleanor's lovers tells you a little bit about her less and her inability to be humane. Because there's similarities and contrasts in every single one.“
1:28:30 Her relationship with Rogers is Eleanor's attempt at creating a, idealized, perfect marriage, something she never had modeled for her in her formative years after losing her mother.
1:36:00 Most of the time the episodes went way overtime and had to be cut back significantly. Hannah rewatched each episode to see how much actually made it. There was a lot of detail and background work that was prepared and acted, but simply never made it to the screen because of time constraints. Hannah praises Black Sails for its slow burn quality; the slow build makes the payoff much more rewarding. It rewards careful attention to detail and rewatching. Many shows hit their peak in S1 or 2 and fizzle out because their story is already finished, whereas Black Sails keeps building steadily.
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Crew, have you ever obliterated a man with the mere sound of your judgmental knitting? And how shit is your taste in men, anyway?
