A lot of Final Fantasy ramblings
Before I begin on what I know is a touchy subject for a lot of people, let me first say this: if I express any views contrary to the ones that you yourself hold on any of these games, it doesn't mean I don't respect you and I don't respect your rights to hold contrary views. On the same page, I hope that you won't decide you h4te me forever if I say something you don't like. I have gone beyond having arbitrary opinions on things, and I promise I never dislike a character or particular thing out of spite (although I have in the past, also I have hated characters because of their fans, which I have also gotten over). Keep this in mind while reading these ramblings.
Such is my disclaimer.
Now, after an exciting evening of playing the beginning to Kingdom Hearts Final Mix before switching back to FF8, where I am again on the third disc and have just witnessed the splashy return of Lunatic Pandora while Squall, Rinoa, and Irvine hurtle soundlessly at Lunaside, Bryan and I decide that it is past our bedtimes and turn in to go to sleep. By "turn in to go to sleep," I of course mean move to the bedroom where instead of sleeping we have continued and critical discussion of the Final Fantasy series. Hot RPG bedroom talk. I know all of you out there are having ten jillion orgasms just thinking about it.
Anyway.
So the crux of this discussion is this: I have been fighting desperately with writing a KH/FF8 story that is similar in theme to Tami's >But That Was in Another Country, which I adore devoutly. She is also working on a FF8-side answer to this problem, but I'm certain that our ideas are pretty drastically different, so I look it at as two diverging possibilities. I am fascinated by how the KH world melds to the FF ones, and think that's ripe for storytelling. The idea for Post just blossomed in my head all at once and I thought "That would be fantastically fun to write." And that's why I started playing FF8 again, because as anyone who knows me can tell you, I'm not comfortable writing for characters who are not my own without extensive and very recent research. This is why I can give you Soujiro's dialogue verbatim and tell you each and every damn thing down to the tiniest detail about Angelic Layer. You can think of me as a research hellion.
I know that sounds really edgy and sexy. Bear with me.
So I've been replaying FF8 for the past few days, and I am again reminded that it is a brilliant game, and one that influenced me very pivotally when it had its first stateside release, 1999. I was a freshman in college, and had been Nintendo4Life, even though that was leaving me feeling a little dejected stewing with just my N64. At Christmas I visited my mother in Colorado, and since I didn't know anyone there she suggested I rent a movie to watch to keep myself occupied. At the Blockbuster I picked up a copy of FF8, beautifully new and gorgeous.
It was the first playstation game I had ever played, and I sat rapt in the living room and played from the opening sequence to the descent of the Ragnarok in one sitting, thirty six hours with only pee breaks, until I collapsed exhausted over my controller and fell into a stupor. That holiday I saw more of FF8 than I did of my family, since I left for Louisiana shortly to spend Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with Bryan and his kin, and I still find it deeply formative. I had never played anything like it, had never met game characters like Squall and Rinoa and Selphie and Irvine and Zell, had never been as chilled as I had been by Edea's Witch Parade. I cried when I thought Selphie and Irvine had been killed in the missle base explosion. I cried again when Squall put Rinoa on his back and made the decision to walk to Esthar alone, no matter what people thought of him.
As the Ragnarok descended I was so exhausted and happy that I cried again, curled up in an afghan on a couch in a house I'd never been in before. For me, Final Fantasy 8 reordered my gaming world, and suddenly from only PC games I went back to my console roots. That spring I borrowed FF8 from a friend, and the following fall I had bought my own PS.
Imagine my deep delight when Leon showed up in Kingdom Hearts. I thought "Here is my chance to pay homage to this beautiful, brilliant, and often maligned thing, now when I am no longer retarded and seventeen, and likely to write the same kind of stuff Rinoa would (i.e. the angsty tragique adventures of Lord Squall and his Fair Lady)." Forgive us, I say again, for we were but seventeen.
Of course, the other reason I love Kingdom Hearts is because it dishes up Cloud/Aerith for me. I you can't understand why I love this pairing, then you should try reading this website, and this page in particular, because that's how I feel about things. You don't give up on someone you love, even if they die, and certainly not if you're a Mako-eyed sociopath like Cloud.
When I played FF7 I immediately thought that Cloud's one true love was Aerith, and was really confused when I met people who disagreed, and admittedly bitter and angry when some people implied that I was being purile and childish for liking a relationship founded on nothing and so obviously unrealistic. I have gotten over hating on Tifa, which was my immediate reaction to being told I was an idiotic moron for liking Cloud/Aerith. I love Tifa now, especially when Tami writes her. I respect her, and I feel sorry for her, but I think she's strong enough to accept with the hand she's been dealt.
(P.S. Aerith will always be my forever favorite FF7 character. The end.)
And now we get into FF7 territory. So all of you know, I am deleriously excited about the FF7 games coming out soon and am somewhat driven to distraction over what I'll do when Before Crisis comes out and I do not have an appropriate phone to play it on. I am probably most excited about Dirge of Cerberus, and I think that is because they have not yet released plans for Cloud and Aerith's Fun Time Adventure (which I think is actually called Kingdom Hearts II, as a working title). I want these games because I think that a lot of these characters have so much to them if you just go looking a little bit, and here comes the big bombshell: I think Final Fantasy 7 explores little to none of that.
Let me say here that I admire Final Fantasy 7 as the milestone achievement that it was. I think that it forever changed the face of console rpgs and is a considerable improvement on FF6, which left me beating my forehead bloody against a wall around the time of the World of Ruin. When I say that I think the characters got little development, I say that strongly aware that they got much more development than basically anyone other than Terra and Celes did in FF6. I know where FF7 sits in the Final Fantasy storytelling heirarchy, and I am saying this as an experienced storyteller wnd world builder. I think there are a lot of really interesting a neat elements in Final Fantasy 7, but because they didn't have the experience, or didn't have the time, or weren't even sure what the public was waiting for, Final Fantasy 7 ends up being a lot of really neat ideas that don't coalesce into anything particularly spectacular.
I think why some people swear that FF7 is the darkest of the Final Fantasy games and has the most moving and dramatic story is because they're reading into it. Because FF7 is not so well brought together, people end up stitching it together in the way they like best, so they can pretend the world ends, or that it's a story about the juvenile idiocy of romance and the importance of realism, or that everyone dies, or whatever they want. They can write huge sweeping epics and tell themselves that they aren't doing anything but properly explaining the plot as the writers of FF7 intended.
But honestly kids? It's just not really there. When a lot of your audience can't really make heads or tails of the last third of your game, it's not usually because the public is completely and stupidly moronic. It's because you haven't really done the best job of tying everything up in a bow. Lots of times when I ask people "So, what happened at the end of FF7." I get floating "?????" above their heads, or better yet, a really long and drawn out explanation that doesn't seem to mesh with anyone else's explanation.
Now I have nothing against fanon, and some people have built some pretty brilliant FF7 fanon, but people need to realize and be aware that it is just that:
Fanon.
I think I finally understood Bryan's opinions on FF7 when he explained it this way (you must understand that when I talk with him, I'm always the one defending FF7 XD). Final Fantasy 8 was a story as real as any novel, and the characters were real. He could understand them and feel what they felt. Final Fantasy 7 was just a game. He didn't dislike any of the characters, but once the game was over, it was done. He killed the Emerald Weapon and that was that.
And I can understand that. What has rekindled and really more or less flamed my affection for Cloud/Aerith is because of their portrayal in Kingdom Hearts. There I think they're just as Bryan said: real people, real characters. You can see and understand them better, even from their brief appearances. That's why I'm excited about Drige of Cerberus etc. I want to see some of the characters fully realized, and not just pretty Nomura sketches. Barret is hilarious as Mr. T with a gattling gun on his arm, but he deserves to be more than that, doesn't he?
Now how does this stand against the original FF7 canon? Frankly, I'll take any characterziations these spin-offs can give me, since I find FF7 itself to be anemic, like not enough broth in water. I want to like these characters. I really do. I want Squaresoft to give me that chance.
So now you know why when people shout that FF7 is the most brilliant Final Fantasy game that has ever been, I just end up scratching my head in a confused fashion. Like Tami said, the closest one that's come to perfect is Final Fantasy X. To me, that means they just keep getting better, which is why I have such high hopes for Dirge of Cerberus and Before Crisis.
I may well wet myself when KH II comes out. Trust me, I'll be playing it before New Year's Day, and listening to Donald incoherently spewing insults at Jack Sparrow in Japanese.
Peace out,
Gabi
-----
P.S. I have ten million years of other things to say concerning FF9 and FFX and X-2, but I think this is probably enough for now XD
P.P.S. Since I have granted you the courtesy, please do not make me limit break you for telling me how retarded I am for liking Cloud/Aerith. Feel free to like Cloud/Tifa. That is fine and dandy and I wish you well, but the second you start telling me how much of an imbecile I am is the second I start pulling grenades from my pockets.
Such is my disclaimer.
Now, after an exciting evening of playing the beginning to Kingdom Hearts Final Mix before switching back to FF8, where I am again on the third disc and have just witnessed the splashy return of Lunatic Pandora while Squall, Rinoa, and Irvine hurtle soundlessly at Lunaside, Bryan and I decide that it is past our bedtimes and turn in to go to sleep. By "turn in to go to sleep," I of course mean move to the bedroom where instead of sleeping we have continued and critical discussion of the Final Fantasy series. Hot RPG bedroom talk. I know all of you out there are having ten jillion orgasms just thinking about it.
Anyway.
So the crux of this discussion is this: I have been fighting desperately with writing a KH/FF8 story that is similar in theme to Tami's >But That Was in Another Country, which I adore devoutly. She is also working on a FF8-side answer to this problem, but I'm certain that our ideas are pretty drastically different, so I look it at as two diverging possibilities. I am fascinated by how the KH world melds to the FF ones, and think that's ripe for storytelling. The idea for Post just blossomed in my head all at once and I thought "That would be fantastically fun to write." And that's why I started playing FF8 again, because as anyone who knows me can tell you, I'm not comfortable writing for characters who are not my own without extensive and very recent research. This is why I can give you Soujiro's dialogue verbatim and tell you each and every damn thing down to the tiniest detail about Angelic Layer. You can think of me as a research hellion.
I know that sounds really edgy and sexy. Bear with me.
So I've been replaying FF8 for the past few days, and I am again reminded that it is a brilliant game, and one that influenced me very pivotally when it had its first stateside release, 1999. I was a freshman in college, and had been Nintendo4Life, even though that was leaving me feeling a little dejected stewing with just my N64. At Christmas I visited my mother in Colorado, and since I didn't know anyone there she suggested I rent a movie to watch to keep myself occupied. At the Blockbuster I picked up a copy of FF8, beautifully new and gorgeous.
It was the first playstation game I had ever played, and I sat rapt in the living room and played from the opening sequence to the descent of the Ragnarok in one sitting, thirty six hours with only pee breaks, until I collapsed exhausted over my controller and fell into a stupor. That holiday I saw more of FF8 than I did of my family, since I left for Louisiana shortly to spend Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with Bryan and his kin, and I still find it deeply formative. I had never played anything like it, had never met game characters like Squall and Rinoa and Selphie and Irvine and Zell, had never been as chilled as I had been by Edea's Witch Parade. I cried when I thought Selphie and Irvine had been killed in the missle base explosion. I cried again when Squall put Rinoa on his back and made the decision to walk to Esthar alone, no matter what people thought of him.
As the Ragnarok descended I was so exhausted and happy that I cried again, curled up in an afghan on a couch in a house I'd never been in before. For me, Final Fantasy 8 reordered my gaming world, and suddenly from only PC games I went back to my console roots. That spring I borrowed FF8 from a friend, and the following fall I had bought my own PS.
Imagine my deep delight when Leon showed up in Kingdom Hearts. I thought "Here is my chance to pay homage to this beautiful, brilliant, and often maligned thing, now when I am no longer retarded and seventeen, and likely to write the same kind of stuff Rinoa would (i.e. the angsty tragique adventures of Lord Squall and his Fair Lady)." Forgive us, I say again, for we were but seventeen.
Of course, the other reason I love Kingdom Hearts is because it dishes up Cloud/Aerith for me. I you can't understand why I love this pairing, then you should try reading this website, and this page in particular, because that's how I feel about things. You don't give up on someone you love, even if they die, and certainly not if you're a Mako-eyed sociopath like Cloud.
When I played FF7 I immediately thought that Cloud's one true love was Aerith, and was really confused when I met people who disagreed, and admittedly bitter and angry when some people implied that I was being purile and childish for liking a relationship founded on nothing and so obviously unrealistic. I have gotten over hating on Tifa, which was my immediate reaction to being told I was an idiotic moron for liking Cloud/Aerith. I love Tifa now, especially when Tami writes her. I respect her, and I feel sorry for her, but I think she's strong enough to accept with the hand she's been dealt.
(P.S. Aerith will always be my forever favorite FF7 character. The end.)
And now we get into FF7 territory. So all of you know, I am deleriously excited about the FF7 games coming out soon and am somewhat driven to distraction over what I'll do when Before Crisis comes out and I do not have an appropriate phone to play it on. I am probably most excited about Dirge of Cerberus, and I think that is because they have not yet released plans for Cloud and Aerith's Fun Time Adventure (which I think is actually called Kingdom Hearts II, as a working title). I want these games because I think that a lot of these characters have so much to them if you just go looking a little bit, and here comes the big bombshell: I think Final Fantasy 7 explores little to none of that.
Let me say here that I admire Final Fantasy 7 as the milestone achievement that it was. I think that it forever changed the face of console rpgs and is a considerable improvement on FF6, which left me beating my forehead bloody against a wall around the time of the World of Ruin. When I say that I think the characters got little development, I say that strongly aware that they got much more development than basically anyone other than Terra and Celes did in FF6. I know where FF7 sits in the Final Fantasy storytelling heirarchy, and I am saying this as an experienced storyteller wnd world builder. I think there are a lot of really interesting a neat elements in Final Fantasy 7, but because they didn't have the experience, or didn't have the time, or weren't even sure what the public was waiting for, Final Fantasy 7 ends up being a lot of really neat ideas that don't coalesce into anything particularly spectacular.
I think why some people swear that FF7 is the darkest of the Final Fantasy games and has the most moving and dramatic story is because they're reading into it. Because FF7 is not so well brought together, people end up stitching it together in the way they like best, so they can pretend the world ends, or that it's a story about the juvenile idiocy of romance and the importance of realism, or that everyone dies, or whatever they want. They can write huge sweeping epics and tell themselves that they aren't doing anything but properly explaining the plot as the writers of FF7 intended.
But honestly kids? It's just not really there. When a lot of your audience can't really make heads or tails of the last third of your game, it's not usually because the public is completely and stupidly moronic. It's because you haven't really done the best job of tying everything up in a bow. Lots of times when I ask people "So, what happened at the end of FF7." I get floating "?????" above their heads, or better yet, a really long and drawn out explanation that doesn't seem to mesh with anyone else's explanation.
Now I have nothing against fanon, and some people have built some pretty brilliant FF7 fanon, but people need to realize and be aware that it is just that:
Fanon.
I think I finally understood Bryan's opinions on FF7 when he explained it this way (you must understand that when I talk with him, I'm always the one defending FF7 XD). Final Fantasy 8 was a story as real as any novel, and the characters were real. He could understand them and feel what they felt. Final Fantasy 7 was just a game. He didn't dislike any of the characters, but once the game was over, it was done. He killed the Emerald Weapon and that was that.
And I can understand that. What has rekindled and really more or less flamed my affection for Cloud/Aerith is because of their portrayal in Kingdom Hearts. There I think they're just as Bryan said: real people, real characters. You can see and understand them better, even from their brief appearances. That's why I'm excited about Drige of Cerberus etc. I want to see some of the characters fully realized, and not just pretty Nomura sketches. Barret is hilarious as Mr. T with a gattling gun on his arm, but he deserves to be more than that, doesn't he?
Now how does this stand against the original FF7 canon? Frankly, I'll take any characterziations these spin-offs can give me, since I find FF7 itself to be anemic, like not enough broth in water. I want to like these characters. I really do. I want Squaresoft to give me that chance.
So now you know why when people shout that FF7 is the most brilliant Final Fantasy game that has ever been, I just end up scratching my head in a confused fashion. Like Tami said, the closest one that's come to perfect is Final Fantasy X. To me, that means they just keep getting better, which is why I have such high hopes for Dirge of Cerberus and Before Crisis.
I may well wet myself when KH II comes out. Trust me, I'll be playing it before New Year's Day, and listening to Donald incoherently spewing insults at Jack Sparrow in Japanese.
Peace out,
Gabi
-----
P.S. I have ten million years of other things to say concerning FF9 and FFX and X-2, but I think this is probably enough for now XD
P.P.S. Since I have granted you the courtesy, please do not make me limit break you for telling me how retarded I am for liking Cloud/Aerith. Feel free to like Cloud/Tifa. That is fine and dandy and I wish you well, but the second you start telling me how much of an imbecile I am is the second I start pulling grenades from my pockets.