In regards to the war question, its the people not the religion that is the problem. Jesus says love your enemy etc, when he died he still didnt hate or lash out at those who harmed him. This is how a "true" christian would react in theory, they would live following the word of jesus and doing as he did. The thing is: so few actually can do this, most of religion especially in america are only religous in their church. Once they get outside of their church, they will (for the most part, there are some exceptions) do many things that their religion in the purest sence would frown upon.
Im not gonna comment on davids views on religion because this i know. Religion is a very personal thing, with many different views. There is no right answer, and very rarely through arguing can you change a persons religous beliefs. There views will change not off of what someone tells them, but off of personal experiences in an individuals life. Talking and arguing about religion in my mind is: meaningless, and gets nothing done.
On a similar vein is the evolution/big bang is right people. They are no better than the ones that force religion down your throat imho. Religion to me is not the belief in a god, it is ones beliefs in regards to: what created us, why are we here, etc. With that line of thought, evolution is a religion.
Anyone that tries to push their religous views on others is just making fools of themselves, let people decide on their own.
Not to slam your post david (if it sounded that way, just stating kinda how I few things in general.
If it comes down to it, what we need to force down peoples throats is not to force things down people's throats, if you get what I mean
Just because nothing tangible comes from something doesn't mean it's worthless. I tell Lindsey that her BF is an asshole (which he is) not out of an effort to make her dump him (I feel I don't need to help, she'll come to eventually), but out of a need to put the seed there, to be able to say that I told her what I thought of him when the shit hits the fan.
It's not like anything I say will cause her to dump him; however it will ease my frustration that she's a wonderful girl and he's an abusive, sick s.o.b. I can say, "I did what I could", and not be torn apart with the "if only I did..." when he eventually hurts her, which he will. Mark my words, she will be hurt by him, and hurt bad. I can do nothing besides attempt to tell her my view of him, and watch the tower fall.
So in essence, I'm attempting to warn her (a futile, meaningless act) to help myself.
It's not really that people are only religious in church (that's expected) so much as the ones who attempt what's called hostile conversion. Not just Christians, all groups have their extreme evangelists. I like to mix and match between viewpoints, and I'm attempting to shove it down everyone's throats so the area around me will become less extreme. I do this again for myself, because I hate being around people who hate others for having the opposite view, especially on something so trivial to everything as abortion. If anyone wanted to hear a whole lot of slamming, get me started on the "abortion issue". Hah.
Do slam on my post, but do it intelligently. Slam to your heart's content, prove me wrong. I dare you! It takes opposing views to make a discussion fun. Everyone doesn't like to take a stand, they will only engage if they think they're on the winning side. I'll happily engage in a debate where I'm on the less-favored side, because then the people in agreement with me are all guaranteed to be solid types, no fair weather flyers.
Religion - religion beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life
That's a direct quote from a dictionary. A problem we have today (sorry to use you as an example) is that people like to skew definitions of words to fit their point. Sometimes we don't really realize it because it can make sense. Evelution is NOT about where we came from or why we are here; however, it is about how we got here, so besides the fact that it has nothing to do with the devine, it didn't even fit your own definition.
Well im not trying to say evolution etc is wrong in any way, just saying thhat it is no better then the people that force religion down your throat. Oh and it did fit my definition - evolution is how humans were created.
Im not trying to skew the definition, im just trying to put everything in perspective, evolution is a scientific theory that acts as a substitute for religion in many cases. Hence I will consider it pretty damn close to a religion.
Also according to dictionary.com one of the defs of religion:
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
I think evolution can easily be put under that category. :P
Dont punk me david. :)
As im sure you know im not afraid of giving my opinion, I just dont like to sound like an ass when I do so. Because im damn sure I will anyway.
You sound like an ass without even giving your opinion... XD but thats beside the point
Do you worship evolution? Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but I generally don't worship gorillas. Not my idea of a diety... I think the poo-throwing is the deal breaker.
I don't think evolution is a religion. I think it can work hand in hand with religion because all it does is prove how ingenious God is, that it could create a self-fixing and self-upgrading machine. That has to be up there in the greatest feats of all time, next to me getting through a day without pissing anyone off and Bush getting through a day without proving how stupid he is.
All jokes aside, likening evolution to religion just closes more minds. When people don't understand why something so universal works, they tend to look for a way to discount it. All you do is give them a way to discount it while maintaining the appearance of competence.
If there is no opposing viewpoint (which there isn't for evolution), they'll suck up their lack of understanding and accept that it "might be right". In doing just that little compromise, they start the process which eventually results in them 2.0, them as a better, freer human being.
Ah but see you clsify religion as having to do with a diety. That is a common misperception. Religion is not only the worship of a diety(s) it goes beyond that.
Im fully aware evolution isnt a "religion" in the sence that we would think of it. However according to dictionary.com it is. :) People will often use evolution as a filler for religion.
I know I sound like an ass, its what I do best. :P
I just find it hilarious when you have two people debating, for "intellectual stimulation" to use toms words, and end up accomplishing nothing but sligning the same old shit at the other side that wont give a damn.
There is an opposing viewpoint to evolution, many believe that god did everything etc, bible enterpreted exactly as written. Some view evolution as the means with which god created us, and others just believe in no god in evolution.
Moost people will fall into one of these 3 categories, unless they just dont have an opinion either way, or they believe in nothing.
Im not playing up to either side evolution or religion, just clarifing what I said earlier.
"what created us, why are we here" you didn't say how in there at all. Evolution doesn't tell us *why* we are here, it tells us how we got to the state that we are currently in. it's not so much of a "what created us?" because that implies that something intenionally created us, or what started/created the beginning of everything (because that indirectly makes us into being, if whatever that is didn't happen we wouldn't be here as we are).
And to the def you provided. that's in the sense of "John's work is his religion," kind of thing, it doesn't apply to the context what we're talking about. If someone buys you a new game, and gives it to you for a present, and you say "wicked!" that doesn't mean that what they did was wicked. It's sort of a similar tone. That the context is not the same. So in the sense that evolution is Gary's religion. (let's say he's a professor who lives by darwin) then yeah, you can call it a religion, but what it is not, is a religion that stands by christianity, or juddism.
( a couple of these ideas I had a hard time putting into words, and there's spelling mistakes, but I'm too lazy right now to change that)
Im not gonna comment on davids views on religion because this i know. Religion is a very personal thing, with many different views. There is no right answer, and very rarely through arguing can you change a persons religous beliefs. There views will change not off of what someone tells them, but off of personal experiences in an individuals life. Talking and arguing about religion in my mind is: meaningless, and gets nothing done.
On a similar vein is the evolution/big bang is right people. They are no better than the ones that force religion down your throat imho. Religion to me is not the belief in a god, it is ones beliefs in regards to: what created us, why are we here, etc. With that line of thought, evolution is a religion.
Anyone that tries to push their religous views on others is just making fools of themselves, let people decide on their own.
Not to slam your post david (if it sounded that way, just stating kinda how I few things in general.
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Just because nothing tangible comes from something doesn't mean it's worthless. I tell Lindsey that her BF is an asshole (which he is) not out of an effort to make her dump him (I feel I don't need to help, she'll come to eventually), but out of a need to put the seed there, to be able to say that I told her what I thought of him when the shit hits the fan.
It's not like anything I say will cause her to dump him; however it will ease my frustration that she's a wonderful girl and he's an abusive, sick s.o.b. I can say, "I did what I could", and not be torn apart with the "if only I did..." when he eventually hurts her, which he will. Mark my words, she will be hurt by him, and hurt bad. I can do nothing besides attempt to tell her my view of him, and watch the tower fall.
So in essence, I'm attempting to warn her (a futile, meaningless act) to help myself.
It's not really that people are only religious in church (that's expected) so much as the ones who attempt what's called hostile conversion. Not just Christians, all groups have their extreme evangelists. I like to mix and match between viewpoints, and I'm attempting to shove it down everyone's throats so the area around me will become less extreme. I do this again for myself, because I hate being around people who hate others for having the opposite view, especially on something so trivial to everything as abortion. If anyone wanted to hear a whole lot of slamming, get me started on the "abortion issue". Hah.
Do slam on my post, but do it intelligently. Slam to your heart's content, prove me wrong. I dare you! It takes opposing views to make a discussion fun. Everyone doesn't like to take a stand, they will only engage if they think they're on the winning side. I'll happily engage in a debate where I'm on the less-favored side, because then the people in agreement with me are all guaranteed to be solid types, no fair weather flyers.
Reply
That's a direct quote from a dictionary. A problem we have today (sorry to use you as an example) is that people like to skew definitions of words to fit their point. Sometimes we don't really realize it because it can make sense. Evelution is NOT about where we came from or why we are here; however, it is about how we got here, so besides the fact that it has nothing to do with the devine, it didn't even fit your own definition.
Reply
Im not trying to skew the definition, im just trying to put everything in perspective, evolution is a scientific theory that acts as a substitute for religion in many cases. Hence I will consider it pretty damn close to a religion.
Also according to dictionary.com one of the defs of religion:
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
I think evolution can easily be put under that category. :P
Dont punk me david. :)
As im sure you know im not afraid of giving my opinion, I just dont like to sound like an ass when I do so. Because im damn sure I will anyway.
Reply
Do you worship evolution? Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but I generally don't worship gorillas. Not my idea of a diety... I think the poo-throwing is the deal breaker.
I don't think evolution is a religion. I think it can work hand in hand with religion because all it does is prove how ingenious God is, that it could create a self-fixing and self-upgrading machine. That has to be up there in the greatest feats of all time, next to me getting through a day without pissing anyone off and Bush getting through a day without proving how stupid he is.
All jokes aside, likening evolution to religion just closes more minds. When people don't understand why something so universal works, they tend to look for a way to discount it. All you do is give them a way to discount it while maintaining the appearance of competence.
If there is no opposing viewpoint (which there isn't for evolution), they'll suck up their lack of understanding and accept that it "might be right". In doing just that little compromise, they start the process which eventually results in them 2.0, them as a better, freer human being.
Reply
Im fully aware evolution isnt a "religion" in the sence that we would think of it. However according to dictionary.com it is. :) People will often use evolution as a filler for religion.
I know I sound like an ass, its what I do best. :P
I just find it hilarious when you have two people debating, for "intellectual stimulation" to use toms words, and end up accomplishing nothing but sligning the same old shit at the other side that wont give a damn.
There is an opposing viewpoint to evolution, many believe that god did everything etc, bible enterpreted exactly as written. Some view evolution as the means with which god created us, and others just believe in no god in evolution.
Moost people will fall into one of these 3 categories, unless they just dont have an opinion either way, or they believe in nothing.
Im not playing up to either side evolution or religion, just clarifing what I said earlier.
Reply
And to the def you provided. that's in the sense of "John's work is his religion," kind of thing, it doesn't apply to the context what we're talking about. If someone buys you a new game, and gives it to you for a present, and you say "wicked!" that doesn't mean that what they did was wicked. It's sort of a similar tone. That the context is not the same. So in the sense that evolution is Gary's religion. (let's say he's a professor who lives by darwin) then yeah, you can call it a religion, but what it is not, is a religion that stands by christianity, or juddism.
( a couple of these ideas I had a hard time putting into words, and there's spelling mistakes, but I'm too lazy right now to change that)
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