and on a wholly different note

Jan 16, 2007 12:02

¿could someone explain to my Capitalistic, Luddite ass the morality behind file-sharing copywritten material? the three answers i've heard are: Corporations are evil and kick puppies, therefore i'm justified in ripping them off; copywriting "information" is ludicrous on its face, my actions aren't illegal they're progressive; i don't give a crap, ( Read more... )

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nyarhotep January 16 2007, 21:25:31 UTC
methinks, the hole in your logic is divorcing corporations from the individuals which make up that corp. in the end, a corp is just a group of people working together to make a profit (feed their family). it's easy to dehumanize Corps into raving CEOs and Mindless Bureaucratic Automata, but that's forgetting that those stereotypes are bound to real people in a real world

when you interact with corps, you need to to conceive of who will be affected. though, it is maybe buying too much into propaganda, when profits drop (from whatever reason) it's the lowest workers who will be detrimentally affected. when GM closes five plants and fires 30k people, you best believe the top 3% of that company doesn't feel any pay-check pinch - it's the rest of us poor slobs what get mothwallets. so, when Corps start losing profits from file-sharing, the price of information (CDs, DVDs, what have you) isn't going to drop, it's the costs of business which are going to get reduced: that's jobs and that's wages

now, i understand what you're saying about Darwinian Economics, but ¿are you really comfortable with the fact that you're preyin off the minimum wage disc-press operator working in Podunk Bumsville?

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akirad January 16 2007, 21:40:34 UTC
"now, i understand what you're saying about Darwinian Economics, but ¿are you really comfortable with the fact that you're preyin off the minimum wage disc-press operator working in Podunk Bumsville?"

It's tricky isn't it? (well for me it is!) I absolutely do not want the worst off to suffer. So on that level I'm not comfortable with my own actions - hence perhaps my oever-eagerness to jump to my own defense. Flipping it around though, if you asked the CEOs whether they feel okay about firing the worst off in their organisation in order to shore up profits and keep the shareholders dividends healthy they will say "Hell yes!" They might trot out the excuse that their responsibility is to the shareholders (another way of saying "I'm was only following orders"), but their whole moral framework is based around the notion that an employee has no value except as a commodity.

So I suppose what we're saying is - are we prepared to be as amoral as the corporations are, or should we show a conscience?

I suppose we should show a conscience. But I still find it very hard to tie my individual actions to the loss of jobs. And I still always come back to those jobs that are shed every day from corporations making record profits because there's no such thing as "enough profit".

Hmmm. I'm coming back to my original position perhaps. It's a question of whether copyright theft affects profitablility that much and whether those profits, if they were attained, would actually safeguard any jobs.

But no, I'm twisting in the wind. You're right, regardless of how immoral the corporations might be, I know that reduced revenue means job cuts, and I am partly to blame.

What to do, what to do...?

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aedynn January 17 2007, 04:50:08 UTC
what is truly immoral is the insanity that is executive compensation... Millions upon millions of dollars.. even if you suck at your job.. while low-wage workers can't feed their families.. that is immoral.

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nyarhotep January 17 2007, 21:23:39 UTC
no, that's an extension of capitalism. the system produces extrema of resource distribution. to say it's immoral is to say it countermands civil courtesies or legal restraints - and a company which makes money, and rewards CEOs for doing so, isn't necessarily doing either. methinks, attaching moral distinctions to monetary status leads to all kinds of trouble

now, if you want to say Capitalism itself is immoral, that's another conversation. though, i'm not sure i could agree with that either. it seems to me, Capitalism is a tool, not an outcome or action

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aedynn January 17 2007, 21:49:49 UTC
When someone gets obscenely rich because they are talented at screwing over poor people, I call that immoral, simple as that.

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nyarhotep January 17 2007, 22:40:20 UTC
¿how would you define screwing people? the owner of Denny's is obscenely rich, so are the Board of the RedCross, and the chairman of Greenpeace. ¿is having money immoral?

i grant you, there are less than savory people who've made money. but i don't think that just because a person is rich they've been illicit in their activities. making money off a niche isn't, necessarily, immoral

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aedynn January 18 2007, 01:37:36 UTC
making millions of dollars by cutting wages, cutting benefits, laying off people, and hiking prices is what I call immoral. It is possible to run a business where prices are fair, compensation is fair... the people who run, say, Exxon Mobile who blatently overinflat prices to take advantage of misfortune and intentionally skimp on safety measure to inflate profits and line their own and their investors wallets are no better than theives and murderers

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