(no subject)
Justin: Barzun on perspective when studying history: "...it is wiser to speak of conditions rather than causes, and of influences rather than a force making the change." is that your gripe w/ howard zinn's take on things? that he utterly ignores that? if so, i can see where you're coming from
Ronan: Barzun makes an interesting point, but my gripe with Zinn is that he's more like a courtroom DA or defense attorney
Justin: lol
Ronan: to him, there's no ambiguity to his side, he's totally pure
Ronan: for instance, if he's talking about a southern governor vetoing a civil rights bill, he'll take that as proof of rampant, deep-seeded government racism
Ronan: when, in fact, the state legislature passed the bill by a majority vote -- thus complicating the issue
Ronan: Zinn doesn't see these issues as dynamic and complex, and my complaint is that the best historians see historical movements and figures moving within the conditions and influences of their time
Ronan: so yeah, I guess I do agree with Barzun
Ronan: but I don't know who Barzun is
Ronan: Barzun could be a racist pedophile
Ronan: so maybe I don't want to agree with Barzun
Justin: you can agree with someone without condoning their actions
Justin: which is good for you because jacques barzun was one of the most brutal and prolific of the racist child rapists of the 80's
Ronan: Barzun makes an interesting point, but my gripe with Zinn is that he's more like a courtroom DA or defense attorney
Justin: lol
Ronan: to him, there's no ambiguity to his side, he's totally pure
Ronan: for instance, if he's talking about a southern governor vetoing a civil rights bill, he'll take that as proof of rampant, deep-seeded government racism
Ronan: when, in fact, the state legislature passed the bill by a majority vote -- thus complicating the issue
Ronan: Zinn doesn't see these issues as dynamic and complex, and my complaint is that the best historians see historical movements and figures moving within the conditions and influences of their time
Ronan: so yeah, I guess I do agree with Barzun
Ronan: but I don't know who Barzun is
Ronan: Barzun could be a racist pedophile
Ronan: so maybe I don't want to agree with Barzun
Justin: you can agree with someone without condoning their actions
Justin: which is good for you because jacques barzun was one of the most brutal and prolific of the racist child rapists of the 80's