Torchwood: Exorcism

[notevery]

It is all the fault of the fucking French boy.  Or rather, it is all the fault of the French boy Jack is fucking.

Not that Ianto is jealous.  Why would he be?  Not after what happened-not after what Jack did to Lisa.  Not even weeks afterwards, not even when Jack has been so polite, so eager to conquer Ianto’s heart and mind, win him back into the

Comments

[notevery]

Thank you for the detailed comment! It's massively appreciated: I love to be told what could have been better/was good/etc., and your comments are really perceptive and definitely made me think--always a good thing! You might be interested in how I replied to miss_zedem above, since her point is similar, but I'll answer your specific points here, too.

First off, the punching (or not). As I said to miss_zedem, I'm more than happy to admit that a punch would have been extremely possible, and I only narrowly chose over not including a return-punch myself, for reasons I explained above (but not, I think, very coherently: my brain seems to be mush this morning). My main motive for not including it was Ianto's shock--I didn't believe that even with an angry Jack he would expect to be punched; Ianto was certainly caught up in his own (justified) rant at the time--; however, I can see how this is a weak part of the story and I'll definitely keep that in mind.

As far as the 'sex and power' point goes, I think that's largely down to poor explanation on my part, and it's good for me to know when things aren't as clear as I intended them. Rereading, I can totally see where you're coming from. In fact, it seems the obvious way to read it, which is a bit worrying since it isn't what I intended to convey--so clearly that needs work, and thank you for pointing it out to me!

I'll try to explain what I did mean, and please bear with me on any incoherence/lack of logical thought; I'm happy to rephrase anything if it's completely unintelligible. My intention was not to show Jack using sex as a way to show he's in charge, or as a tool to assert power; I was instead meaning to show Jack being angry (and, well, horny) and Ianto wanting sex too (hence the hints dropped about his attraction to Jack before the night on which the story takes place), as well as having some twisted idea that there's some kind of absolution in pain (after the Lisa incident). Hence the sex is mutually angry and mutually needy; what aggression there is comes from complex feelings towards each other, rather than Jack trying to show 'who's the boss', so to speak. Jack is most definitely angry and not exactly being gentle because of that, but I don't think that has to mean he's asserting power. His threats, also--regarding betrayal--were intended to be threatening because of the threat of (non-sexual) violence: Jack has already nearly executed Ianto; Ianto wouldn't doubt that he'd go though with it the next time.

I entirely agree that 51st century, sex-positive Jack wouldn't associate sex with power: I intended him to be angry and rough rather than asserting dominance. I'm sure that Jack would have been just as happy being the penetrated partner and still being rough; however, Ianto never initiated that, and I don't imagine Jack being particularly hung up on who-penetrates-whom. I tried to convey the fact that Ianto chooses to be the one 'underneath', too, to show that he makes a decision rather than purely submits. To be brief: I was going for angry, rough, and powerful (but not power-proving) sex, which in my mind at least is different from "I'll prove who is in charge here by making you submit sexually". However, I do realize there's about all of a centimetre's difference between them, and also that I didn't convey what I did mean very well. I'm still pretty sure I'm not conveying it well, for that matter :P

Thanks again for the comment, it really is much appreciated.

[hellenebright]

As miss_zedem says, thanks for taking this in a great spirit (and not punching my lights out :). Having read your notes on where you were going in this fic, I think maybe the problem is that *I'm* a 20th century gal(since I was born in the 1950's, I can't really describe myself as 21st century), so I am putting a particular spin on things that you never intended to be there.

I see your point about Ianto being shocked at being hit. Jack isn't sending a message here, he actually isn't attempting to be dominant - he's just lost it like the kid in the playground that's just been called a wanker. And having lost it, he's not really as in control during the autopsy room sequence as he might like to think he is - or at least, as he comes across.

I'm not sure about the absolution in pain thing - its such a Catholic concept, and Ianto would surely be chapel. Seriously, I do know people who feel like that, but its still the equivalent of cutting to the ones I know (even if they inflict the pain by some other means than a razor blade), so I guess I still have a squick about it.

Still, it doesn't detract from the power and depth of the fic itself. I'd rather read this than a dozen fluff-bunny hearts and flowers Jack/Ianto fics.

[notevery]

Least I could do! As I said to miss_zedem, I have to admit that I'm a fan of concrit.

Jack isn't sending a message here, he actually isn't attempting to be dominant - he's just lost it like the kid in the playground that's just been called a wanker.

That explains what I was trying to say three billion times better than I managed it, and it was several times more concise, too. I was trying to convey a situation that's definitely dubious, but comes out on the side of angry people being aggressive rather than someone trying to express control in an entire interpersonal relationship.

Agreed, Ianto most likely wouldn't be Catholic even if he were religious--and also self-harm in all its forms is a really understandable squick to have! I can see an argument for that being too much authorial interference there, if that phrase makes sense: I'm an atheist, but I do have a weakness for the absolution-through-pain idea (and for the inner-peace-through-hard-work concept, so I may not be a religious person but have clearly inherited some of religion's mores.)

[hellenebright]

It's hard not to inherit the religious mores of those around you - Ianto would almost certainly have the protestant work ethic, if not any of the more extreme aspects of chapel christianity.