In which I debated my cousins over gay marriage
Read this or don't. A few days ago, I woke up to find my cousin must have launched into a tirade over gay marriage, so he, my other cousin, and I got into a kind of argument over the matter into two separate Facebook threads. Just posting this for my own future reference. I still don't understand the anti-gay marriage argument, but...meh.
Paul Stewart: Ummm not to start a war but in all fifty states two people who live together under the same roof can file for a civil union.....Same rights as marriage and hell you dont even need to file for divorce. Marriage is a RELIGIOUS RIGHT, not a PUBLIC ONE...Hell most gays are atheists anyway what the hell do they care about marriage......
Robert Stewart at 5:50am June 9
"MOST GAYS ARE ATHEISTS ANYWAY"
I'd come in my pants if you had a statistic top back THAT up besides talking out your own ass.
Paul Stewart at 8:16am June 9
Most of the gay alliance on SEMO's campus have shown up to the rally for prayer on campus, and they all announced that god doesn't exist and chanted it. Aaron Barnes's uncle and his partner are atheist. Josh Abrams Uncle and his partner bash Josh's family's religious belief using the argument "give me physical proof god exists, and then i'll consider it, and only consider it." Talk to them they make it perfectly clear
Selina Breiner at 9:30am June 9
Those are just a few examples, Paul. Not all gays are atheists. I agree that marriage has religious rights, but it is also something that is recognized by the state giving it economical benefits. And I understand that civil unions can give you the same thing but there are only a handful of states that recognize them and even then the federal government doesn't recognize the unions making it difficult to obtain the same benefits as a marriage. I believe it's more an issue of equality. At one point in time marriage was more of a sign of ownership (and still is in certain places) but has lately become a sign of outward and enduring love between two people. What's wrong with love?
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 2:43pm June 9
may I just point out the irony that marriage is catholic / christian, and in those religions gays are condemed to hell. Why would gays opt in on a religious right that only mocks that right and condems them? besides, marriage is defined as 'between man and wife'. I do feel however that there should be some form of a legal union for gays.
Robert Stewart at 2:58pm June 9
The definitions of words change ALL THE TIME. That's not even a pretend valid argument. Look at a dictionary from 20 years ago, then look at one today.
And Paul...come on. Four individuals and "some" members of a group on one little dinky college? Clearly an accurate sample size? You know better.
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:00pm June 9
um, the dictionary changes, the bible doesn't. and the bible is the defining factor of marriage since, wait for it, the bible is the foundations of marriage!!!
Robert Stewart at 3:02pm June 9
Yes. Good thing the Bible never changed. It's too bad I can never do any shopping on Sundays since everything is closed since working on Sunday is a capital offense. Well, except for my slaves, of course. They work all the time.
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:05pm June 9
lol those are laws based upon the bible. the bible itself hasn't changed since martin luther and all protested against the catholic churches and translated the bible in thier own terms
I'd love to see where the bible condons slavery, btw. and times change, yes, but again I ask, why would gays opt into a world that condems them for what they are.
oh and lets be clear, Lincon, who freed the slaves? owned slaves himself and ran on a ticket that declared he would NOT free the slaves. say what you want, b/c slavery is eternally wrong and no one deserves it
Robert Stewart at 3:08pm June 9
Because marriage, much less Christmas nowadays, has nothing to do with religion. It is a ceremony where two people pledge their love to each other and promise to honor one another. There is a religious origin to it, yes, but it has adapted to become a secular event. Are you going to tell me no atheists or agnostics or Buddhists marry?
And what about sinners in general? Do know sinners marry? Are there no couples wed who engaged in pre-marital sex? Or gossiper? People who covet or lie? They all get married.
do no* sinners. Sorry. I can't make the typey. :)
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:28pm June 9
sinners repent, they ask God for forgivness. 'he whoever believes in me shall not die but have eternal life'. that whole deal applies to sinners. gays would need to give up being gay in order to be redeemed.
I'll give you that whole christmas having nothing to do with religion, but for those of out there, such as myself, who truly get angry over such things, the idea of gays having a religion based ceremony is a mockery. I just want a different label put on it because of my beliefs. maybe that's not fair, but life isn't fair
Robert Stewart at 3:35pm June 9
Gay marriage isn't a sin. Loving someone of your gender is not a sin. Gay SEX is a "sin". So, IN THEORY, if two gay people got married and never had sex...they are golden.
You can't "give up being gay" any more than one can give up being right-handed or how tall he/she is. They can abstain from sex, if that's what you mean, though. Is that okay you?
Why do you care if two people who are in love get married? It affects you....not at all. Why do you want to stop it? Because of the definition of a word? That's the most selfish thing I've ever heard.
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:42pm June 9
not entirely selfish. I share these same views with the vast majority of the christian and catholic community. Human creation puts a guy and girl together, so its not even NATURAL that they are wired this way. that is a FACT.
I know some gay people. I like them, they are cool and friendly, they make better friends than most people in all actuality.
And I care because of what it does to the actual religious aspects of what a marriage is. it changes what a marriage is and therefore changes something deeply rooted in my faith. So it disrupts and mocks my beliefs and it affects what it means when I get married. Gee, no, that doesn't affect me at all does it?
why do the need the term married? what is so wrong with civil unions? hell, non-gay people have civil unions all the freaking time, why are they so damn determined to ruin one of the last religious rites ?
Robert Stewart at 3:50pm June 9
Old people can't get it up, so is it unnatural for them to marry? Better tell Grammy and Jim their marriage is unnatural. And, really, the human body has tons of orafices and prongs. How do you know what is supposed to go where; who made? The way children are made? Congratulations, you just invalidated old people marriage, marriage where one or both partners are sterile, and any marriages between couples that want to remain childless.
It does not disrupt or mock your faith. Seriously, you are crazy. You make it sound like the gays are out to get you or something. They don't want to get married to ruin your religion; they want to get married because it is a modern-day secular celebration of love and faithfulness. Does inter-religious marriage mock you? Deuteronomy specifically bans it. Does divorce mock you? It is a corruption of your sacred religious practice. So aren't those a much bigger concernh for you than gay marriage considering gay MARRIAGE is not even mentioned in the Bible?
I ran out of characters and ended up with a "who made" in there with no rest of a question. Curse Facebook for foiling me!
As for the whole "civil union" thing. Why don't YOU get a civil union if they are so terrific? Apparently they are just like marriage. You should be fine.
I do want to say, I fully and wholly respect you for having your opinion and being open to sharing it. I don't think ANY less of you over this discussion (or your brother, who I just like to rib). Contrarily, I am proud you are so passionate about the issue. Gay marriage just tends to be the only thing that riles me up because it is so patently unfair. I just hope you don't think I think poorly of you because we disagree. I would never.
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:59pm June 9
well, I believe in God and follow the faith. Marriage was created to say your vows before God. That's why many marriages are done in churches, and almost all of them are done by some form of religious leader. A civil union is not for me b/c of my faith and the fact that I want God to bear witness to my union.
as for the whole old people comments. Old people in general are not natural. Modern day medicine and the evolution of man has made them possible, along with the gay population and other un-natural things. Not saying un-natural is wrong, but that it is not the natural way of life. For an english major you use words very narrowly.
not at all. I am very opinionated in my views and I do enjoy arguing them. You were stating your beliefs and offering up new points of view and giving me food for thought. A discussion is welcome, not a destruction of views, and since you were not slandering or just name calling I have total respect for the fact that you have argued your points. I do think gay marriage is unfair on so many levels, that we can agree on. But let us also agree, life is not fair. =p
Paul Stewart at 7:17pm June 9
Selina im going to ask a personal question...Are you gay? Ok two, Do you believe?
Bobby: My college triples your's size, and the same occurrence has happened at the University of Columbia, Georgia Tech, and hell even UCLA. But wait you don't hear about it because your liberal agenda sees no wrong in it, but god forbid one nut kills an abortion doctor and all hell breaks lose. Granted murder is wrong by even his religious veiws hence making him a nut....
Robert Stewart at 7:50pm June 9
Stats. I can it here and say "I've seen hundreds of gays on TV that are Christian", and that doesn't make a compelling argument. Do you really debate people like that? Just saying things and hoping people take you at your word? Literally, every single gay I've ever known was a Christian, and I've read stories about several others that want to live a Christian life and still be accepted for who they are, but I wouldn't quantify that as "most" or "all". Until you can find some Census info about the proportionate amount of what segment of society follows what, you shouldn't just throw out statements you can't back up. Not because I want to see you...whatever. But because it is disingenuous, and won't win a point against anyone with research. Again, I'm not trying to attack you. Just trying to get you to see. Saying "I have seen this!" without any verification is pointless. I can say I've seen dinosaurs, but the burden of proof is on me to then prove that with facts. Follow?
You take things too personally. Admittedly, when I read and replied to these this morning, I was a bit of extra snarky at 5:30am and shouldn't have been. My bad. I apologize; I should have woken up a bit and gotten the I DON'T WANT TO BE AWAKE out of my system first. But you and your whole "YOU HAVE AN AGENDA YOU LIE" when you can't even back up your own statement with anything more than hearsay is a bit much. I don't have a political agenda. If this was POLITICS, I'd honestly not care. This is a human rights issue to me. It's basic common sense. People who are in love should be able to take part in the ultimate form of honor of that love. I don't care who has what agenda over it.
That was the first one. I just now saw his line about his college tripling mine in size and realized that was a lie. His school has a enroollment over just over 10k. Pitt has an enrollment of almost 30k. He snuck that out-and-out lie by me. Here's the second one. Tired yet?
Paul Stewart: Marriage has nothing to do with legality of people's love or affection. Instead it is government stepping in and telling the religious community that our tradition has now become one's PUBLIC not RELIGIOUS right. All four major religions view homosexuality as an ABOMINATION. Our RELIGIOUS rights are being violated because some one was offended they couldn't get a marriage certificate well boohoo bend over and take your queer partners dick up your ass I don't care that your gay, but you are trying to bastardize my religion FUCK OFF!!
Robert Stewart at 5:54am June 9
I remember when all the major religions said slavery was lawful and good, too. And that interracial dating was an abomination. And, really, all kinds of things that are now not the social norm. Also, way to be so awesome about it with the whole gay thing. OMG, YOU THINK GAY SEX IS DISGUSTING! Well I think fatties having sex is disgusting. And old people. And hillbillies. So no sex for them, either! I'm not even going to touch on how not a single right of yours is being even remotely violated by letting gay people privately marry.
Paul Stewart at 7:08pm June 9
When you actually believe in Jesus Christ and read the Bible especially the Gospel, Corinthians, and Revelation, I'll sit there and smile to you because all your doing is making a fool of yourself. Slavery according to Jesus was a sin because all men by his death are free. Frankly I don't care about gay sex, hell I've walked in on it. It's no different than walking in on your parents. Hell and back to your bashing of my religion, in Deuteronomy it is mosaic law for rape victims to marry their rapist..hahaha....laws that stood three thousand years ago, and have been replaced by those of the Messiah. When you actually have a clue about Christianity I'll sit down and have a converstation, not even a debate, a conversation with you over it, but learn what your going to bash before you do so. And I'm going to part with this: I loved Storm, I understand that love comes in all shapes and sizes. Civil Unions before a public servant or clerk: Go for it. Marriage before a Reverend or Pastor of Christ: Over my dead American body.
Robert Stewart at 7:45pm June 9
What if the Reverend or the Pastor WANTS to give the ceremony? You're laboring under the delusion that ALL churches EVERYWHERE are going to be FORCED to give gay married couples a ceremony; that simply isn't true. Churches always have and can and will be able to turn[ed] away couples for whatever reasons they want. But what about Anglican and Episocopal churches that won't mind doing gay marriage ceremonies? Who are you to tell them they can't? Don't you want LESS government? What good conservative wants a government that tells churches what they can or can't do? Or that tells citizens what they can or can't do in their private lives? Isn't that generally the opposite of what you stand for? Honestly, I'm just asking a question. It strikes me as contradictory.
And I honestly don't mean to come off as "bashing" anybody's religion. I'm merely trying to point out that things once considered Biblical standards have evolved over the years. I'm not trying to attack Christianity or anything. If you interpreted what I said as an attack on your beliefs, I apologize for my undesired implication of that.
Paul Stewart at 6:40pm June 11
First of all the Episcopal and Anglican church are the same thing just spanning an ocean. Secondly if they want to give marriages to same sex couples they aren't christian because they completely ignore the laws of Christ. That is even stated in Thessalonians. I don't care about their love, it happens they have rights to it, but all I am asking is change the word of marriage, am I so wrong for wanting to preserve my religion. And government needs to be A HELL of a lot smaller and that is what I fighting for, but I am also fighting for my beliefs.
Robert Stewart at 6:59pm June 11
Again, are you saying only Christians get married? Because...that is the opposite of true. Are you going to put a large effort to stop atheists from getting married? Or Agnostics? Sinners? Or people from other religions that want to have a big fancy American ceremony? What about people that get a marriage license from the state but don't have a ceremony, or just have a small one presided over by a Justice of the Peace or a ship captain (actually, that may be an urban legend...I'm not entirely sure, heh)? Nothing religious there, yet it is still a marriage. Jews get married, but they have their own ceremony for it, full of stomping on glass and what not. It's still a legal marriage. I'm sure Hindus and Muslims have their own non-Christian wedding ceremonies that I know nothing about, but they still count as legal marriages. If homosexuals had their own kind of ceremony that was not a typical Christian wedding, could that still be viewed as a legal marriage?
And sorry, I tend to get lost in the 800 different Protestant religions. I knew the Anglican church and the Episcopal church were both fairly gay-friendly, so I named them both.
Sigh, I know. Asinine. But it passed some time.
Paul Stewart: Ummm not to start a war but in all fifty states two people who live together under the same roof can file for a civil union.....Same rights as marriage and hell you dont even need to file for divorce. Marriage is a RELIGIOUS RIGHT, not a PUBLIC ONE...Hell most gays are atheists anyway what the hell do they care about marriage......
Robert Stewart at 5:50am June 9
"MOST GAYS ARE ATHEISTS ANYWAY"
I'd come in my pants if you had a statistic top back THAT up besides talking out your own ass.
Paul Stewart at 8:16am June 9
Most of the gay alliance on SEMO's campus have shown up to the rally for prayer on campus, and they all announced that god doesn't exist and chanted it. Aaron Barnes's uncle and his partner are atheist. Josh Abrams Uncle and his partner bash Josh's family's religious belief using the argument "give me physical proof god exists, and then i'll consider it, and only consider it." Talk to them they make it perfectly clear
Selina Breiner at 9:30am June 9
Those are just a few examples, Paul. Not all gays are atheists. I agree that marriage has religious rights, but it is also something that is recognized by the state giving it economical benefits. And I understand that civil unions can give you the same thing but there are only a handful of states that recognize them and even then the federal government doesn't recognize the unions making it difficult to obtain the same benefits as a marriage. I believe it's more an issue of equality. At one point in time marriage was more of a sign of ownership (and still is in certain places) but has lately become a sign of outward and enduring love between two people. What's wrong with love?
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 2:43pm June 9
may I just point out the irony that marriage is catholic / christian, and in those religions gays are condemed to hell. Why would gays opt in on a religious right that only mocks that right and condems them? besides, marriage is defined as 'between man and wife'. I do feel however that there should be some form of a legal union for gays.
Robert Stewart at 2:58pm June 9
The definitions of words change ALL THE TIME. That's not even a pretend valid argument. Look at a dictionary from 20 years ago, then look at one today.
And Paul...come on. Four individuals and "some" members of a group on one little dinky college? Clearly an accurate sample size? You know better.
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:00pm June 9
um, the dictionary changes, the bible doesn't. and the bible is the defining factor of marriage since, wait for it, the bible is the foundations of marriage!!!
Robert Stewart at 3:02pm June 9
Yes. Good thing the Bible never changed. It's too bad I can never do any shopping on Sundays since everything is closed since working on Sunday is a capital offense. Well, except for my slaves, of course. They work all the time.
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:05pm June 9
lol those are laws based upon the bible. the bible itself hasn't changed since martin luther and all protested against the catholic churches and translated the bible in thier own terms
I'd love to see where the bible condons slavery, btw. and times change, yes, but again I ask, why would gays opt into a world that condems them for what they are.
oh and lets be clear, Lincon, who freed the slaves? owned slaves himself and ran on a ticket that declared he would NOT free the slaves. say what you want, b/c slavery is eternally wrong and no one deserves it
Robert Stewart at 3:08pm June 9
Because marriage, much less Christmas nowadays, has nothing to do with religion. It is a ceremony where two people pledge their love to each other and promise to honor one another. There is a religious origin to it, yes, but it has adapted to become a secular event. Are you going to tell me no atheists or agnostics or Buddhists marry?
And what about sinners in general? Do know sinners marry? Are there no couples wed who engaged in pre-marital sex? Or gossiper? People who covet or lie? They all get married.
do no* sinners. Sorry. I can't make the typey. :)
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:28pm June 9
sinners repent, they ask God for forgivness. 'he whoever believes in me shall not die but have eternal life'. that whole deal applies to sinners. gays would need to give up being gay in order to be redeemed.
I'll give you that whole christmas having nothing to do with religion, but for those of out there, such as myself, who truly get angry over such things, the idea of gays having a religion based ceremony is a mockery. I just want a different label put on it because of my beliefs. maybe that's not fair, but life isn't fair
Robert Stewart at 3:35pm June 9
Gay marriage isn't a sin. Loving someone of your gender is not a sin. Gay SEX is a "sin". So, IN THEORY, if two gay people got married and never had sex...they are golden.
You can't "give up being gay" any more than one can give up being right-handed or how tall he/she is. They can abstain from sex, if that's what you mean, though. Is that okay you?
Why do you care if two people who are in love get married? It affects you....not at all. Why do you want to stop it? Because of the definition of a word? That's the most selfish thing I've ever heard.
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:42pm June 9
not entirely selfish. I share these same views with the vast majority of the christian and catholic community. Human creation puts a guy and girl together, so its not even NATURAL that they are wired this way. that is a FACT.
I know some gay people. I like them, they are cool and friendly, they make better friends than most people in all actuality.
And I care because of what it does to the actual religious aspects of what a marriage is. it changes what a marriage is and therefore changes something deeply rooted in my faith. So it disrupts and mocks my beliefs and it affects what it means when I get married. Gee, no, that doesn't affect me at all does it?
why do the need the term married? what is so wrong with civil unions? hell, non-gay people have civil unions all the freaking time, why are they so damn determined to ruin one of the last religious rites ?
Robert Stewart at 3:50pm June 9
Old people can't get it up, so is it unnatural for them to marry? Better tell Grammy and Jim their marriage is unnatural. And, really, the human body has tons of orafices and prongs. How do you know what is supposed to go where; who made? The way children are made? Congratulations, you just invalidated old people marriage, marriage where one or both partners are sterile, and any marriages between couples that want to remain childless.
It does not disrupt or mock your faith. Seriously, you are crazy. You make it sound like the gays are out to get you or something. They don't want to get married to ruin your religion; they want to get married because it is a modern-day secular celebration of love and faithfulness. Does inter-religious marriage mock you? Deuteronomy specifically bans it. Does divorce mock you? It is a corruption of your sacred religious practice. So aren't those a much bigger concernh for you than gay marriage considering gay MARRIAGE is not even mentioned in the Bible?
I ran out of characters and ended up with a "who made" in there with no rest of a question. Curse Facebook for foiling me!
As for the whole "civil union" thing. Why don't YOU get a civil union if they are so terrific? Apparently they are just like marriage. You should be fine.
I do want to say, I fully and wholly respect you for having your opinion and being open to sharing it. I don't think ANY less of you over this discussion (or your brother, who I just like to rib). Contrarily, I am proud you are so passionate about the issue. Gay marriage just tends to be the only thing that riles me up because it is so patently unfair. I just hope you don't think I think poorly of you because we disagree. I would never.
Courtney 'cj' Stewart at 3:59pm June 9
well, I believe in God and follow the faith. Marriage was created to say your vows before God. That's why many marriages are done in churches, and almost all of them are done by some form of religious leader. A civil union is not for me b/c of my faith and the fact that I want God to bear witness to my union.
as for the whole old people comments. Old people in general are not natural. Modern day medicine and the evolution of man has made them possible, along with the gay population and other un-natural things. Not saying un-natural is wrong, but that it is not the natural way of life. For an english major you use words very narrowly.
not at all. I am very opinionated in my views and I do enjoy arguing them. You were stating your beliefs and offering up new points of view and giving me food for thought. A discussion is welcome, not a destruction of views, and since you were not slandering or just name calling I have total respect for the fact that you have argued your points. I do think gay marriage is unfair on so many levels, that we can agree on. But let us also agree, life is not fair. =p
Paul Stewart at 7:17pm June 9
Selina im going to ask a personal question...Are you gay? Ok two, Do you believe?
Bobby: My college triples your's size, and the same occurrence has happened at the University of Columbia, Georgia Tech, and hell even UCLA. But wait you don't hear about it because your liberal agenda sees no wrong in it, but god forbid one nut kills an abortion doctor and all hell breaks lose. Granted murder is wrong by even his religious veiws hence making him a nut....
Robert Stewart at 7:50pm June 9
Stats. I can it here and say "I've seen hundreds of gays on TV that are Christian", and that doesn't make a compelling argument. Do you really debate people like that? Just saying things and hoping people take you at your word? Literally, every single gay I've ever known was a Christian, and I've read stories about several others that want to live a Christian life and still be accepted for who they are, but I wouldn't quantify that as "most" or "all". Until you can find some Census info about the proportionate amount of what segment of society follows what, you shouldn't just throw out statements you can't back up. Not because I want to see you...whatever. But because it is disingenuous, and won't win a point against anyone with research. Again, I'm not trying to attack you. Just trying to get you to see. Saying "I have seen this!" without any verification is pointless. I can say I've seen dinosaurs, but the burden of proof is on me to then prove that with facts. Follow?
You take things too personally. Admittedly, when I read and replied to these this morning, I was a bit of extra snarky at 5:30am and shouldn't have been. My bad. I apologize; I should have woken up a bit and gotten the I DON'T WANT TO BE AWAKE out of my system first. But you and your whole "YOU HAVE AN AGENDA YOU LIE" when you can't even back up your own statement with anything more than hearsay is a bit much. I don't have a political agenda. If this was POLITICS, I'd honestly not care. This is a human rights issue to me. It's basic common sense. People who are in love should be able to take part in the ultimate form of honor of that love. I don't care who has what agenda over it.
That was the first one. I just now saw his line about his college tripling mine in size and realized that was a lie. His school has a enroollment over just over 10k. Pitt has an enrollment of almost 30k. He snuck that out-and-out lie by me. Here's the second one. Tired yet?
Paul Stewart: Marriage has nothing to do with legality of people's love or affection. Instead it is government stepping in and telling the religious community that our tradition has now become one's PUBLIC not RELIGIOUS right. All four major religions view homosexuality as an ABOMINATION. Our RELIGIOUS rights are being violated because some one was offended they couldn't get a marriage certificate well boohoo bend over and take your queer partners dick up your ass I don't care that your gay, but you are trying to bastardize my religion FUCK OFF!!
Robert Stewart at 5:54am June 9
I remember when all the major religions said slavery was lawful and good, too. And that interracial dating was an abomination. And, really, all kinds of things that are now not the social norm. Also, way to be so awesome about it with the whole gay thing. OMG, YOU THINK GAY SEX IS DISGUSTING! Well I think fatties having sex is disgusting. And old people. And hillbillies. So no sex for them, either! I'm not even going to touch on how not a single right of yours is being even remotely violated by letting gay people privately marry.
Paul Stewart at 7:08pm June 9
When you actually believe in Jesus Christ and read the Bible especially the Gospel, Corinthians, and Revelation, I'll sit there and smile to you because all your doing is making a fool of yourself. Slavery according to Jesus was a sin because all men by his death are free. Frankly I don't care about gay sex, hell I've walked in on it. It's no different than walking in on your parents. Hell and back to your bashing of my religion, in Deuteronomy it is mosaic law for rape victims to marry their rapist..hahaha....laws that stood three thousand years ago, and have been replaced by those of the Messiah. When you actually have a clue about Christianity I'll sit down and have a converstation, not even a debate, a conversation with you over it, but learn what your going to bash before you do so. And I'm going to part with this: I loved Storm, I understand that love comes in all shapes and sizes. Civil Unions before a public servant or clerk: Go for it. Marriage before a Reverend or Pastor of Christ: Over my dead American body.
Robert Stewart at 7:45pm June 9
What if the Reverend or the Pastor WANTS to give the ceremony? You're laboring under the delusion that ALL churches EVERYWHERE are going to be FORCED to give gay married couples a ceremony; that simply isn't true. Churches always have and can and will be able to turn[ed] away couples for whatever reasons they want. But what about Anglican and Episocopal churches that won't mind doing gay marriage ceremonies? Who are you to tell them they can't? Don't you want LESS government? What good conservative wants a government that tells churches what they can or can't do? Or that tells citizens what they can or can't do in their private lives? Isn't that generally the opposite of what you stand for? Honestly, I'm just asking a question. It strikes me as contradictory.
And I honestly don't mean to come off as "bashing" anybody's religion. I'm merely trying to point out that things once considered Biblical standards have evolved over the years. I'm not trying to attack Christianity or anything. If you interpreted what I said as an attack on your beliefs, I apologize for my undesired implication of that.
Paul Stewart at 6:40pm June 11
First of all the Episcopal and Anglican church are the same thing just spanning an ocean. Secondly if they want to give marriages to same sex couples they aren't christian because they completely ignore the laws of Christ. That is even stated in Thessalonians. I don't care about their love, it happens they have rights to it, but all I am asking is change the word of marriage, am I so wrong for wanting to preserve my religion. And government needs to be A HELL of a lot smaller and that is what I fighting for, but I am also fighting for my beliefs.
Robert Stewart at 6:59pm June 11
Again, are you saying only Christians get married? Because...that is the opposite of true. Are you going to put a large effort to stop atheists from getting married? Or Agnostics? Sinners? Or people from other religions that want to have a big fancy American ceremony? What about people that get a marriage license from the state but don't have a ceremony, or just have a small one presided over by a Justice of the Peace or a ship captain (actually, that may be an urban legend...I'm not entirely sure, heh)? Nothing religious there, yet it is still a marriage. Jews get married, but they have their own ceremony for it, full of stomping on glass and what not. It's still a legal marriage. I'm sure Hindus and Muslims have their own non-Christian wedding ceremonies that I know nothing about, but they still count as legal marriages. If homosexuals had their own kind of ceremony that was not a typical Christian wedding, could that still be viewed as a legal marriage?
And sorry, I tend to get lost in the 800 different Protestant religions. I knew the Anglican church and the Episcopal church were both fairly gay-friendly, so I named them both.
Sigh, I know. Asinine. But it passed some time.