Gun story:
Okay... here goes... My husband, myself, and several friends were dinning at a semi-local restaurant (by that i mean there are a few of this "chain restaurant" but only in VA and possibly surrounding state areas). Nothing particular happened (except for somewhat iffy service from our waiter) and we had finished eating, received our checks & my husband (and friends) were in the process of writing the tip & totaling their bills when a manager walks up.
First off, he asked for Jimmy's gun. Seriously, ASKED him "would you like me to take your gun and put it in our safe for you?" Jimmy just looked at him and said "No." Jimmy said something about being allowed to carry and the guy said "well, welcome to Virginia" (like that meant that Jimmy was mistaken & carrying a gun isn't allowed in VA).
Jimmy then attempted to educate this obviously ignorant moron by saying "No, if I am in an establishment I can carry but i have to do so openly." The manager then accused Jimmy of NOT following the law because he noticed a jacket on Jimmy's chair. He said "well, when you came in you had your jacket on and were concealing!!!" Jimmy replied that he took it off before he came in (and i confirmed this along with another person at our table). The man continued to act like Jimmy had done something wrong & asked him to leave.
After walking out Jimmy put his gun in the car and returned to try and "explain himself" to the manager who was extremely rude to him (the whole thing was said with a tone and in a rude manner). The manager basically refused to talk to him and continued to act like JIMMY (who is the most calm/collected/un-threatening person I know) was the CRAZY one. We later found out from an employee who works there that on Saturday & Sunday everyone was talking about "some crazy guy who was here on Friday with a gun who wouldn't leave Joe (the manager) alone!!"
Other employees didn't know the law... and claimed that he wasn't allowed to carry. Btw, there isn't a sign that states ANYTHING about carrying a gun posted on the way into the establishment. If there was we would have either not eaten there or would have honored the sign and not carried. And none of us have a problem with being asked to leave (though we would be less likely to eat at that establishment in the future if that happened); the problem was with the WAY it was handled. The guy was extremely rude to my husband for NO REASON. Jimmy wasn't waving his gun around or acting intimidating in ANY WAY. He was the CALM ONE and instead got labeled "crazy" simply because he was carrying a firearm.
Furthermore, the manager told Jimmy (when he went back in to talk to the guy) that "the police told me that the only people allowed to carry guns are them." So, either he is LYING and they never told him that, or the police don't even know the LAW in regards to legal carrying of firearms. There have been a few "incidents" in VA and Jimmy looked up and found a statement by the state police "reminding cops" that it's perfectly legal for someone to open carry (in general) wherever they want as long as the premises doesn't have a "no guns allowed" sign, and that it's legal to open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol (again as long as there isn't a sign prohibiting it), but it is NOT legal to conceal-carry in said alcohol serving restaurant/bar/establishment. (I think it's dumb about the ban on conceal-carry in alcohol serving establishments, honestly, but that's another story/rant for another day.)
So... we won't be going back there. And we're considering attempting to call the regional manager to complain about the way Jimmy was treated. We've never had a problem in ANY OTHER resturant (and typically we have MORE PEOPLE that carry --it's up to around 4 generally, 5 if i carry)... But i guess there's a first time for everything.
For reference:
VA State Police Letter Confirming Legality of Open Carry(this is the letter I was referring to that Jimmy found)
VA ABC Letter On Legality of Open Carry in Alcohol Serving Restaurants (Jimmy has a copy of this letter as well as the previous one in his car now)
Website those letters were found on
VA State Info Site
Dear Leader,
>
> I wanted to inform you of a recent incident that occurred at the
> Macado's restaurant. Everything from the manager's mouth
> had a rude, sarcastic tone. We were treated as if we were being
> disruptive, and were spoken to as if we were children.
>
> Myself, along with five friends were enjoying dinner at Macado's on
> Friday, March 28th. We had finished our meal, paid the tab, and were
> about to leave when the manager came up to one of my friends and
> asked, "Sir, are you a police officer?" To which he responded "Uh,
> no."
>
> I could tell the manager (Joe) was very nervous, as he was playing
> with his apron and moving erratically.
>
> Manager: "Then can I have your gun? I can put it in the safe in the
> safe that we have in the back."
>
> I was astonished that he asked my friend for his gun. We aren't aware
> of the manager's background; we do not know if he's a criminal. Why
> would any of us, ever, give the man one of our guns?
>
> Friend: "Well, we are actually about to leave..."
>
> Manager: "Okay, then I'm going to need for you to leave
> immediately..."
>
> I'm not sure how much more "immediately" we can exit a restaurant.
> Maybe sprinting to the door would help, but most of us were on the
> edge of our seats, about to leave, by this time. My friend, however,
> wanted to make sure the manager was clear about the law.
>
> Friend (scooting his chair back, preparing to stand): "Sir, I'm only
> open carrying because Virginia law requires me to. I didn't see a
> sign stating that guns aren't allowed here..."
>
> "Well, welcome to Virginia," he said, as if my friend had broken the
> law, or had in someway, forgotten his CHP training.
>
> We didn't really know how to respond, because we understand the laws
> in Virgina quite well. Four of the six sitting at the table have
> CHP's. We take self-defense and firearms very seriously.
>
> "In Virginia, we're allowed to open carry in restaurants as long as
> there is no sign stating that guns aren't allowed. And, we have to
> open carry because the law says we can't conceal in restaurants that
> serve alcohol..."
>
> "Well, you were wearing a jacket when you came in, so you were
> concealing..."
>
> Actually, my friend doing the talking was not the first one in. It
> was another guy who had no coat at all, and was open carrying a Kimber
> Ultra Carry. Either way, we always remove our coats before entering a
> restaurant to make perfectly sure that we do not break the law.
>
> Friend: "No, I wasn't. I removed my coat before coming in, because
> it's against the law to carry concealed here..."
>
> Manager: "Well, I need you to leave. Immediately."
>
> Friend: "Okay, we're leaving..."
>
> So we went outside, my friend put away his firearm, and we both went
> back in to deescalate the situation, and to make sure we were on good
> terms with the manager. We genuinely enjoy Macado's food, even though
> their service and the quality of their help is nowhere near par. We
> wanted to calmly make sure he knew we were not trying to cause
> trouble, and that in the future, we know they are a Gun
> (defense) Free Zone.
>
> Me: "Hi. We're unarmed, my friend put his gun in his car. We didn't
> mean to cause an issue, we were unaware of this establishment's stance
> on guns, since there was no sign."
>
> Friend: "We open carried because the law..."
>
> Manager: "Don't talk to me about the law! I don't want to hear about
> the law! You brought a gun here and we don't allow that...", he said,
> waiving his hands about like he was fed up.
>
> Friend: "Okay, but you're being rude and sarcastic, and we're trying
> to make sure you know we weren't breaking the law. You are completely
> within your right to ask us to leave, and we complied, but we wanted
> to let you know..."
>
> Manager: "Fine. Thanks for the education."
>
> Me: "So, officially, this Macado's does not allow its customers to
> carry guns..."
>
> Manager: "Right. I've spoken to the police, and they said that the
> only people that were allowed to have guns were the police..."
>
> Us: "That's entirely incorrect and false."
>
> Manager: "Well...Look, let's call it a night. Til next time."
> (walking away)
>
> Me: "Thanks for your time" (reaching to shake his hand)
>
> Manager: "You're welcome" (reaching back, but obviously not caring
> about the formality, and shaking my hand)
>
> The manager left, and we spoke the the hostess(es) for a minute or
> two. They were ignorant as well, believing that we had to conceal if
> we had our license (I said "Well, maybe in Florida that's true, but
> not in Virginia), or that it was illegal to carry entirely.
>
> We know a couple of the waiters that work at Macado's, and they said
> that there are stories going around the restaurant of a crazy guy with
> a gun that wouldn't leave the manager (Joe) alone.
>
> I suppose he's right. We did go back in and try to calm the situation
> down. But neither of us acted crazy, or spoke in raised voices. We
> were calm, collected, professional.
>
> I've also heard that the manager called the local police department
> and they said that we must
> request permission to carry on private property (restaurants).
> After hearing this, I decided to call the local police and set it straight. I
> spoke with Officer J.B. Thomas, and he said he hasn't heard of any
> such law or regulation, and that the [local police station] hasn't been instructed to do
> anything that would go against state law regarding firearms
> possession.
>
> I do not plan on returning to Macado's, mainly because the manager was
> rude, irrational, and spastic. I wasn't treated like a customer. I
> was treated like a criminal.
>
> I'm not sure if this is useful information, or just an interesting
> read. We haven't had any trouble in any other local restaurant, and
> we eat out a lot. Lunch everyday, and at least three times a week for
> dinner. Most servers know who we are, and welcome us to their
> sections (we tip well).
>
> Thanks for your time. Keep up the good work!
>
♥
First off, he asked for Jimmy's gun. Seriously, ASKED him "would you like me to take your gun and put it in our safe for you?" Jimmy just looked at him and said "No." Jimmy said something about being allowed to carry and the guy said "well, welcome to Virginia" (like that meant that Jimmy was mistaken & carrying a gun isn't allowed in VA).
Jimmy then attempted to educate this obviously ignorant moron by saying "No, if I am in an establishment I can carry but i have to do so openly." The manager then accused Jimmy of NOT following the law because he noticed a jacket on Jimmy's chair. He said "well, when you came in you had your jacket on and were concealing!!!" Jimmy replied that he took it off before he came in (and i confirmed this along with another person at our table). The man continued to act like Jimmy had done something wrong & asked him to leave.
After walking out Jimmy put his gun in the car and returned to try and "explain himself" to the manager who was extremely rude to him (the whole thing was said with a tone and in a rude manner). The manager basically refused to talk to him and continued to act like JIMMY (who is the most calm/collected/un-threatening person I know) was the CRAZY one. We later found out from an employee who works there that on Saturday & Sunday everyone was talking about "some crazy guy who was here on Friday with a gun who wouldn't leave Joe (the manager) alone!!"
Other employees didn't know the law... and claimed that he wasn't allowed to carry. Btw, there isn't a sign that states ANYTHING about carrying a gun posted on the way into the establishment. If there was we would have either not eaten there or would have honored the sign and not carried. And none of us have a problem with being asked to leave (though we would be less likely to eat at that establishment in the future if that happened); the problem was with the WAY it was handled. The guy was extremely rude to my husband for NO REASON. Jimmy wasn't waving his gun around or acting intimidating in ANY WAY. He was the CALM ONE and instead got labeled "crazy" simply because he was carrying a firearm.
Furthermore, the manager told Jimmy (when he went back in to talk to the guy) that "the police told me that the only people allowed to carry guns are them." So, either he is LYING and they never told him that, or the police don't even know the LAW in regards to legal carrying of firearms. There have been a few "incidents" in VA and Jimmy looked up and found a statement by the state police "reminding cops" that it's perfectly legal for someone to open carry (in general) wherever they want as long as the premises doesn't have a "no guns allowed" sign, and that it's legal to open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol (again as long as there isn't a sign prohibiting it), but it is NOT legal to conceal-carry in said alcohol serving restaurant/bar/establishment. (I think it's dumb about the ban on conceal-carry in alcohol serving establishments, honestly, but that's another story/rant for another day.)
So... we won't be going back there. And we're considering attempting to call the regional manager to complain about the way Jimmy was treated. We've never had a problem in ANY OTHER resturant (and typically we have MORE PEOPLE that carry --it's up to around 4 generally, 5 if i carry)... But i guess there's a first time for everything.
For reference:
VA State Police Letter Confirming Legality of Open Carry(this is the letter I was referring to that Jimmy found)
VA ABC Letter On Legality of Open Carry in Alcohol Serving Restaurants (Jimmy has a copy of this letter as well as the previous one in his car now)
Website those letters were found on
VA State Info Site
Dear Leader,
>
> I wanted to inform you of a recent incident that occurred at the
> Macado's restaurant. Everything from the manager's mouth
> had a rude, sarcastic tone. We were treated as if we were being
> disruptive, and were spoken to as if we were children.
>
> Myself, along with five friends were enjoying dinner at Macado's on
> Friday, March 28th. We had finished our meal, paid the tab, and were
> about to leave when the manager came up to one of my friends and
> asked, "Sir, are you a police officer?" To which he responded "Uh,
> no."
>
> I could tell the manager (Joe) was very nervous, as he was playing
> with his apron and moving erratically.
>
> Manager: "Then can I have your gun? I can put it in the safe in the
> safe that we have in the back."
>
> I was astonished that he asked my friend for his gun. We aren't aware
> of the manager's background; we do not know if he's a criminal. Why
> would any of us, ever, give the man one of our guns?
>
> Friend: "Well, we are actually about to leave..."
>
> Manager: "Okay, then I'm going to need for you to leave
> immediately..."
>
> I'm not sure how much more "immediately" we can exit a restaurant.
> Maybe sprinting to the door would help, but most of us were on the
> edge of our seats, about to leave, by this time. My friend, however,
> wanted to make sure the manager was clear about the law.
>
> Friend (scooting his chair back, preparing to stand): "Sir, I'm only
> open carrying because Virginia law requires me to. I didn't see a
> sign stating that guns aren't allowed here..."
>
> "Well, welcome to Virginia," he said, as if my friend had broken the
> law, or had in someway, forgotten his CHP training.
>
> We didn't really know how to respond, because we understand the laws
> in Virgina quite well. Four of the six sitting at the table have
> CHP's. We take self-defense and firearms very seriously.
>
> "In Virginia, we're allowed to open carry in restaurants as long as
> there is no sign stating that guns aren't allowed. And, we have to
> open carry because the law says we can't conceal in restaurants that
> serve alcohol..."
>
> "Well, you were wearing a jacket when you came in, so you were
> concealing..."
>
> Actually, my friend doing the talking was not the first one in. It
> was another guy who had no coat at all, and was open carrying a Kimber
> Ultra Carry. Either way, we always remove our coats before entering a
> restaurant to make perfectly sure that we do not break the law.
>
> Friend: "No, I wasn't. I removed my coat before coming in, because
> it's against the law to carry concealed here..."
>
> Manager: "Well, I need you to leave. Immediately."
>
> Friend: "Okay, we're leaving..."
>
> So we went outside, my friend put away his firearm, and we both went
> back in to deescalate the situation, and to make sure we were on good
> terms with the manager. We genuinely enjoy Macado's food, even though
> their service and the quality of their help is nowhere near par. We
> wanted to calmly make sure he knew we were not trying to cause
> trouble, and that in the future, we know they are a Gun
> (defense) Free Zone.
>
> Me: "Hi. We're unarmed, my friend put his gun in his car. We didn't
> mean to cause an issue, we were unaware of this establishment's stance
> on guns, since there was no sign."
>
> Friend: "We open carried because the law..."
>
> Manager: "Don't talk to me about the law! I don't want to hear about
> the law! You brought a gun here and we don't allow that...", he said,
> waiving his hands about like he was fed up.
>
> Friend: "Okay, but you're being rude and sarcastic, and we're trying
> to make sure you know we weren't breaking the law. You are completely
> within your right to ask us to leave, and we complied, but we wanted
> to let you know..."
>
> Manager: "Fine. Thanks for the education."
>
> Me: "So, officially, this Macado's does not allow its customers to
> carry guns..."
>
> Manager: "Right. I've spoken to the police, and they said that the
> only people that were allowed to have guns were the police..."
>
> Us: "That's entirely incorrect and false."
>
> Manager: "Well...Look, let's call it a night. Til next time."
> (walking away)
>
> Me: "Thanks for your time" (reaching to shake his hand)
>
> Manager: "You're welcome" (reaching back, but obviously not caring
> about the formality, and shaking my hand)
>
> The manager left, and we spoke the the hostess(es) for a minute or
> two. They were ignorant as well, believing that we had to conceal if
> we had our license (I said "Well, maybe in Florida that's true, but
> not in Virginia), or that it was illegal to carry entirely.
>
> We know a couple of the waiters that work at Macado's, and they said
> that there are stories going around the restaurant of a crazy guy with
> a gun that wouldn't leave the manager (Joe) alone.
>
> I suppose he's right. We did go back in and try to calm the situation
> down. But neither of us acted crazy, or spoke in raised voices. We
> were calm, collected, professional.
>
> I've also heard that the manager called the local police department
> and they said that we must
> request permission to carry on private property (restaurants).
> After hearing this, I decided to call the local police and set it straight. I
> spoke with Officer J.B. Thomas, and he said he hasn't heard of any
> such law or regulation, and that the [local police station] hasn't been instructed to do
> anything that would go against state law regarding firearms
> possession.
>
> I do not plan on returning to Macado's, mainly because the manager was
> rude, irrational, and spastic. I wasn't treated like a customer. I
> was treated like a criminal.
>
> I'm not sure if this is useful information, or just an interesting
> read. We haven't had any trouble in any other local restaurant, and
> we eat out a lot. Lunch everyday, and at least three times a week for
> dinner. Most servers know who we are, and welcome us to their
> sections (we tip well).
>
> Thanks for your time. Keep up the good work!
>
♥