Pagan ethics statement project

[elfwreck]

In response to a couple of recent abuse cases, some Pagans are working to make a "Pagans against sexual abuse" statement, either for the media or for the internal Pagan community or both. Background info is available at The Wild Hunt blog.

Author Brendan Myers volunteered to host the discussion and created a subforum for related topics. The

Comments

[fleacircus]

As far as the body-as-divine goes, (since there seem to be issues with that) perhaps calling the body worthy of respect and well-treatment, but that sounds a tad stuffy. Perhaps, in less loosey-goosey language: the body should be celebrated, not demeaned and subjugated by acts of violence. But I also don't want to use "demeaned" or a similar word (diminish/disgrace/degraded are the only other ones I can think of, but I am very tired). I think the word choice could be better since I don't want to imply that survivors have been demeaned in anyway-- they're probably getting that from everywhere else.

I wish I could edit

[fleacircus]

"The body should be celebrated, not subjugated to acts of violence" is more precise, I think.

I almost want to add a little more sex positivity in there, but I'm not sure how. Maybe how sex acts are delightful if consensual? I don't know. I haven't slept for over twenty-four hours, so maybe something will come to me later once I've slept.

Re: I wish I could edit

[ulfrslady]

What if someone wants to be subjugated by acts of violence? What if that has strong spiritual significance to them?

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[fleacircus]

Then they find someone or someones who is or are willing to subjugate them to acts of violence and they talk about what they want (it doesn't have to be formal or long and drawn out, just a "fuck me 'til I bleed" or whatever). In The Realm of the Senses Abe killed her lover eventually, but he told her not to stop and she seemed perfectly happy about the whole thing, which is... I don't want to say fine by me, but I understand it at least.

(I have mentioned I'm not that good with words, and that probably wasn't quite what I was after anyway.)

Re: I wish I could edit

[fleacircus]

And by "that" I mean specifically the word "subjugate". Oh my I need a nap.

Re: I wish I could edit

[ulfrslady]

but when we attempt to state absolutely that the body should not be subjugated by acts of violence, we are excluding a portion of the population.

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[call_me_harmony]

This too, acts of violence are an important part of my sexuality and my spirituality, the ordeal path often is seen from the outside merely as acts of violence.

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[fleacircus]

unwillingly subjugated to acts of violence, then.

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[brock_tn]

Which is where the issue of "consent" rears its ugly head again. Acts to which all parties have consented, with full knowledge of the consequences of consent, are acceptable. Acts which nave not been consented to are not.

And there is a an ancient tradition that "the sacrifice that goes consenting" has more power than a sacrifice without consent.

Re: I wish I could edit

[ulfrslady]

But at the end of the day is just as dead as the non-consensual sacrifice.

Re: I wish I could edit

[brock_tn]

Didn't say he/she/it wasn't. But the tradition exists, nonetheless.