Pagan ethics statement project

[elfwreck]

In response to a couple of recent abuse cases, some Pagans are working to make a "Pagans against sexual abuse" statement, either for the media or for the internal Pagan community or both. Background info is available at The Wild Hunt blog.

Author Brendan Myers volunteered to host the discussion and created a subforum for related topics. The

Comments

[elfwreck]

I don't think anyone (reasonable, somewhat sane, not a sociopath etc.) wouldn't want to condemn sexual abuse, but people might think *this* statement was pointless, or too biased in some way, or that pushing to get signatures to this like a petition would distract from the real work of *finding* the sexual predators in our midst.

This won't help us identify the problems, and doesn't really say how communities should deal with them once they're found. A lot of the sexual abuse in the Pagan communities isn't illegal, so going to the cops is not an option; some that is illegal, has to be balanced against the risks to the whole community in areas where the cops are hostile to Paganism. (One of the purposes of the statement is to be able to say "we as a community don't condone these behaviors; pls to not think we're all creeps because we turned over a criminal to the cops." But that doesn't mean it'll actually work that way.)

There are people who wanted to expand the statement into all sorts of other abuses and what they believe is unethical behavior. And some who want to declare that sex should only happen between consenting adults. (Which, umm. Sixteen year olds can get married; I'm not willing to sign a statement that says I think it's wrong for them to have sex.)

It's possible that some Reconstructionists would think the whole thing is too Wicca-flavored, and that supporting it would undermine their attempts to establish their own identities.

And so on. There could be several reasons a person could object to *this statement* while still being very solidly against sexual abuse.

[grynner]

My question is "What's the point?"

Sorry, but I think this "Let's make a general ethics statement and then get it out there" attempt is beyond idiotic. Now, before some of you non-fluffy pagans go ballistic, hear me out.
Idiots/Frakwads happen. I'd be willing to go on record and say it's inevitable. It doesn't matter if the folks at Wild Hunt create this statement and make it the most well known ethics statement 2nd only to the 10 Commandments or the 1st Amendment. Some frakin' idiot out there will set themselves up as a sewage...er...new age guru / wiccan HP/s / Zen Master / Christeo-Pagan minister / or clergy of whatever faith (including Christianity, and the other "biggies") and get it in their head that having sex with children is either "gods plan" or a valid path towards enlightenment. "Oh, but wait! We've previously published an ethics statement that abhors this type of behavior!!!" So sorry, this wing-nut claimed he was legit so you MUST just have that statement for window dressing.
I mean, if you were legit, you'd have an internal means of policing your own to prevent these kind of tragedies. Even if it was ineffectual or geared more towards preserving your "good name" by simply transferring the offender to some other parish/community.....oh wait...I'm not supposed to Christian/Catholic Bash. The point was supposed to be that THEY have a system for dealing with this kind of thing. Not just some "lofty statement of ethics".
But then, "They" also have a centralized organization with specific strictures and doctrines. "They" also collect tithes every weekend and can afford actual church property and buildings and can actually PAY THEIR CLERGY A LIVABLE WAGE.
Us Pagans? We're disorganized, fractious, have no central/organized belief system (that can be relatively easily explained to others), and have absolutely no control over any tom, dick or harry saying "Hi, I'm pagan and my beliefs say I can get away with anything!"
If we want to do something substantial about this, how about getting involved with your local community. Support your Pagan churches that offer a serious, formalized Clergy training program. Get involved with networking, actively bridging various areas disparate pagan communities.
Don't just type a handful of words, click a mouse button, and actually think you've done something meaningful.

[elfwreck]

I think of this as sort of like an interfaith organization's guiding principles statement--each individual religious group is going to need to make its own decisions about how to implement it, but they can agree that they share a given set of values.

I agree that a shared values statement without activism at the local community level is fairly pointless.

I mean, if you were legit, you'd have an internal means of policing your own to prevent these kind of tragedies.

We do, sort of. But those means aren't transferable to other groups. And most Pagan groups are caught by that problem. The hope, here, is that having a shared ethics statement will help groups realize they *do* need to coordinate their efforts to deal with (sexual) predators.