I was originally typing this as a response to a thread on Tara's journal and then decided it was preachy and I felt bad leaving it there. So instead I moved it here
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Coming from a Catholic background, I was always taught that we can judge actions, but not people. My parents very strongly believed that Catholics were the only people who were saved. However, they believed that others could be saved if they "didn't know any better." Were trying their best to get to heaven and just weren't well=schooled in Catholicism. Anyway, I see how we can say that Hitler and Stalin were horrible men. But, I believe that we can't say for sure that they're in Hell. We can say that they did tons of horrible things, that certainly merit Hell. But, we can't judge them. We can judge people's actions, but we can't possibly know or judge what is in people's hearts. We can't know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Hitler and Stalin didn't repent in their last moments. They were horrible people who did horrible things, just as we break God's laws all the time. But, we can't know for sure that God damned them, because we can't know what went on behind the scenes right before they died and we can't know God's thoughts.
I believe that we really can only judge what people do. Now, this isn't to say that people's actions may sometimes lead us to the conclusion that they are simply bad people and we won't judge them without thinking about it, but we should at least try to withold judgement of the actual person because we can't know what goes on between them and God. Anyway, that's my thought on the issue. I think it's an interesting debate.
*looks around to make sure no one's looking and gets back on subject*
I didn't say that we could know that Stalin and Hitler were damned. There's always that possibility of repentance and true belief just before death. We cannot judge the heart, only God knows those inner thoughts and feelings. In fact the only way we could truly be reasonably certain is a deathbed denial. I'd say where I disagree with your parents would be that there is no other way to be saved than that faith in Christ (obviously I'm not gonna say catholicism *grin*). Because we are all fallen we have no righteousness of our own the only righteousness we can find is that of Jesus Christ. "I did my best" just won't cut it.
Hmmmm, trying to put my thoughts into words here. I would say that we have to judge people. When we tried the unabomber (not gonna try to spell the name without looking it up) we judged him to be a murderer. When we tried Wynona Rider we judged her to be a thief or shoplifter (your choice on terms). When I judge myself and everyone else I judge them to be sinners earnestly in need of God's grace and mercy. I will agree that I don't know what their relationship is with God, whether or not they have called upon Him for that grace and mercy. However I don't think that changes the fact that they are a sinner. I'm saved by the grace of God and still a sinner. Yet when God looks at me He can see the perfect righteousness of Christ. It doesn't mean that I have been perfectly sanctified YET, that won't happen until heaven but that I have been cleansed. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." (Isaiah 1:18).
I believe that we really can only judge what people do. Now, this isn't to say that people's actions may sometimes lead us to the conclusion that they are simply bad people and we won't judge them without thinking about it, but we should at least try to withold judgement of the actual person because we can't know what goes on between them and God. Anyway, that's my thought on the issue. I think it's an interesting debate.
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*looks around to make sure no one's looking and gets back on subject*
I didn't say that we could know that Stalin and Hitler were damned. There's always that possibility of repentance and true belief just before death. We cannot judge the heart, only God knows those inner thoughts and feelings. In fact the only way we could truly be reasonably certain is a deathbed denial. I'd say where I disagree with your parents would be that there is no other way to be saved than that faith in Christ (obviously I'm not gonna say catholicism *grin*). Because we are all fallen we have no righteousness of our own the only righteousness we can find is that of Jesus Christ. "I did my best" just won't cut it.
Hmmmm, trying to put my thoughts into words here. I would say that we have to judge people. When we tried the unabomber (not gonna try to spell the name without looking it up) we judged him to be a murderer. When we tried Wynona Rider we judged her to be a thief or shoplifter (your choice on terms). When I judge myself and everyone else I judge them to be sinners earnestly in need of God's grace and mercy. I will agree that I don't know what their relationship is with God, whether or not they have called upon Him for that grace and mercy. However I don't think that changes the fact that they are a sinner. I'm saved by the grace of God and still a sinner. Yet when God looks at me He can see the perfect righteousness of Christ. It doesn't mean that I have been perfectly sanctified YET, that won't happen until heaven but that I have been cleansed. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." (Isaiah 1:18).
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