The Ethical Lecher.

Feb 01, 2008 13:54

This is something I said I'd toss together. It's a bit rough, but I think it's a pretty good beginning. There has been a lot of recent discussion on some lists and other people's LJs about protecting your own boundaries. Someone asked "What if I'm the Creep?" This is my attempt to answer that question ( Read more... )

stuff

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m7superstar February 1 2008, 21:39:31 UTC
What if the lecher is female?

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nobodobodon February 1 2008, 23:15:51 UTC
As I mention in the second paragraph, my hope is that it still applies to other combinations. Honestly, I don't know if it applies very well, though.

I see a lot more problems with male-on-female lechery than female-initiated lechery. Probably because of the rarity, thought, it's even harder to deal with.

Maybe some women who have been identified as creepy and amended their ways would step up with some advice for their icky sisters?

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achild February 1 2008, 23:26:08 UTC
I've definitely seen problems/heard complaints with female-on-male and female-on-female lechery.

I don't think I'd change anything in your list above to adjust for non-sexual issues or different genders. It's pretty global in scope.

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m7superstar February 1 2008, 23:28:14 UTC
I seem to be a magnet for the creepy female type. At the last three big parties I've attended, I've had at least one encounter with a gal who thought I was born to be fondled by her.

I usually avoid these types afterwards.

My point is the same the Zappa's: Girls can be assholes too.

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achild February 1 2008, 23:30:04 UTC
Any suggestions for how they could have handled themselves better, etc?

I like this boundary thread more than the one on chat, for some reason. I thought it was the lack of pepper spray, but we have that here too...

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m7superstar February 1 2008, 23:35:59 UTC
Advice? I think it is the same for everyone...

Think. Ask permission to touch.

Really simple. It's basic respect.

When people are actually paying attention to others, I believe they can read "Yes" and "No" really well. When someone is caught up in their own little world, it is a lot more common to see boundary violations.

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when the lady is a creep izzi13 February 1 2008, 23:20:21 UTC
I'd start with
"just because this is your time to cut loose and lose all your inhibitions doesn't mean everyone else wants to play," or
"People are here for a lot of different reasons. I know you're hot, but you aren't always going to be the answer to that question."
And if I was being snarky, I'd say, "Look around: lovely as they might be, your tits don't make you special."
Other than that, the same guidance applies.

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Re: when the lady is a creep achild February 1 2008, 23:27:22 UTC
"Look around: lovely as they might be, your tits don't make you special."

I don't know how to type the laugh I just did, but it was a fun one. Thanks!

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Re: when the lady is a creep izzi13 February 1 2008, 23:31:47 UTC
and I wasn't going to be snarky today.....

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That's why the lady is a creep nobodobodon February 1 2008, 23:28:59 UTC
She gets too hungry, for a cock to be ate
She loves sixty-nine, but doesn't cum late
She'd never call back the women she ate
That's why the lady is a creep

Doesn't like scat games, with barons and earls
Won't go to Harlem, with a necklace of pearls
Won't dish a shocker to the rest of those girls
That's why the lady is a creep

She loves the free, fresh wind in her cunt
Life with Allen Funt
She's broke, takes toke
She's a big fornicator, with anyone she'll sleep
That's why the lady is a creep

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Re: That's why the lady is a creep m7superstar February 1 2008, 23:43:30 UTC
Would you like to touch my penis?

It's okay if you don't want to. It won't hurt my feelings. You probably think you're better than me. You probably think it's gross. My parents were judgmental like that. They really made me feel ashamed of my sexuality. I really thought I'd found a different group of people in this Burner crowd. Seems like everyone is so accepting and free.

Why won't you touch my penis?

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Re: That's why the lady is a creep angelinger February 2 2008, 16:54:30 UTC
Argh, this comment was the perfect articulation of much of what I feel about the Burner community. We will need to have a chat about this sometime soon.

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Re: That's why the lady is a creep m7superstar February 2 2008, 19:03:27 UTC
I agree. The comment was totally facetious, but representative of the situation folks get put in. Normally, it should be enough to take "no" for an answer. When someone has to push it, they've escalated the situation via the dialog.

Personally, I shouldn't have to explain why I don't want you to touch me. If I have to explain, that pretty much sets up this assumption that you deserve to touch me and I have wrongly rejected you.

Free self expression is great. Acceptance is great. However, acceptance works both ways. You've got to accept both rejection and approval equally to get any value out of it.

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Re: That's why the lady is a creep deeptape February 6 2008, 02:30:35 UTC
I shouldn't have to explain why I don't want you to touch me.

Well said.

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Re: when the lady is a creep m7superstar February 1 2008, 23:30:14 UTC
Brilliant! Thank you. Indeed, I've seen dudes with bigger, juicer breasts at our events than some of the gals. Tits aren't the Flipside American Express card (although, June will probably disagree with me on this one.)

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Re: when the lady is a creep izzi13 February 1 2008, 23:35:47 UTC
She'd be right. They ~are~ the American Express Card. It's just that a lot of places only take Visa, Mastercard, and Discover.

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