Douchey Moments in History
Welcome to another edition of Douchey Moments in History!
"I don't want to see you get rejected and feel that way... I mean, what if everyone votes for him and no one votes for you?"
I don't have a lot to say about this clip. It mostly boils down to, I don't think Noah could possibly have been LESS supportive of Luke's decision to run for student body president. Are there any more ways he could think of to try to undermine Luke's confidence in himself? KEVIN gives Luke a greater show of support than Noah does!
"Quit."
I think Luke has been pretty clear that he's running for student body president for real reasons, that there are real issues he genuinely cares about -- first among them Noah's film festival -- and that while the idea of beating Kevin is appealing, that is not the reason he's doing it.
Noah, however, is convinced that the real reason, the ONLY reason, Luke cares about winning the student body election is because he's still hung up on Kevin, and when Luke asks what Noah wants him to do, Noah tries to insist that Luke quit the election. (And can I just point out that the way Noah apparently doesn't want Luke to have any life outside of his relationship with Noah is SUCH a big red warning flag for an abusive relationship.) Of course, when Luke doesn't immediately cave in and agree to do whatever Noah wants, as far as Noah is concerned the conversation is over and he storms off in a douchey little huff.
"Well I am proud of us, but you know what? I won't be if you cheat."
One thing I find really interesting in this clip is the fact that, even though Noah and Alison are both making pretty much the same argument to Luke and Casey respectively, and even though I entirely agree with the argument they are making and entirely disagree with what Luke and Casey did here, IMO Noah comes across as an obnoxious ass, whereas Alison comes across as rational and level headed. And it has nothing to do with me liking one character more than the other, because at the time this first aired I still kind of liked Noah, and I've always been kind of meh on Alison. But there is a difference in the way they present their arguments. IMO, Alison is all about doing the right thing because it's the right thing. Noah, OTOH, may have started there, but his argument seems to me to quickly devolve into emotional blackmail. It may have started out as "don't do it because it's wrong" but IMO it quickly turned into "don't do it because the guy I fell in love with wouldn't act that way... don't do it because I won't love you anymore if you do." So, there you go, even when I completely agree with Noah's side of the argument, he can still come across to me as a complete and utter DOUCHE.
Another thing that really strikes me, not just in this clip but throughout this whole storyline, Luke has several times talked about the way Kevin made him feel when he came out, and how the memory of that is still painful. If someone I cared about told me something like that, my reaction to that would be to offer them empathy and compassion and understanding of how hard that must have been to go through and/or to ask them if they want to talk about it. To me, Noah barely seems to give a crap about what Luke went through except to the extent that he can use it to question whether Luke is still in love with Kevin... which, by extension, means he's using Luke's pain as a reason to question whether Luke loves him. Because, obviously, Luke's pain is irrelevant except to the extent that it can somehow be made to be all about Noah.
Now, I want to make it clear that I'm not blaming Noah for what Luke did, that is all on Luke. But I can't help but wonder if Luke would have still done it if Noah had offered him more understanding and compassion for the pain Kevin had caused him back in high school and that still lingered, rather than using Luke's pain as an excuse to question their own relationship and storm off in another douchey huff.
"I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it... you're getting very good at that."
More stuff about the stolen election, and again here, I really feel like Alison is upset with Casey because she feels like what he did was wrong, whereas to me Noah seems more upset because Luke didn't do what he wanted. I just feel like his attitude is not so much one of "what you did was wrong" as it is "the idealized version of you I created in my head wouldn't do something like this; how dare you not be that guy."
Of course, to be fair, the issue with Noah not really being in love with Luke (but rather with an idealized version of him that never really existed) is an issue that goes both ways. I had to kind of laugh a little when Luke said, "will you please tell me when my boyfriend gets back" -- it makes me kind of wish I could break down that fourth wall and point out to Luke that "his boyfriend" didn't go anywhere. He's exactly the guy he's always been, and he's standing right there in front of him.
(On a side note, one of the most absolutely awesome things about Luke and Reid is that, considering they originally met under conditions where Luke blackmailed Reid, and Reid acted like a total ass to him for quite a while, neither of them is suffering under any delusions about the person they are with. When Reid says he loves Luke, he really means LUKE, and not some idealized version of Luke he invented in his head. The reverse is true, too -- Luke is in love with REID, the good and the bad, with no delusions about him being someone he isn't.)
(On another side note... 98% voter turnout? And Luke and Casey didn't think they'd get caught? Couple of geniuses, huh?
)
"I didn't have a choice."
I don't think I even need to point out why Noah is such a douche in this clip, since Casey is awesome and does it for me! But you do gotta love the way, in Noah's mind, having a man in a position of authority ask him about it = "I didn't have a choice."
"You wanted to get back at him."
I wasn't sure whether to include this clip on not, because there's nothing really new about the ways in which Noah is douchey here, but I decided to include it mainly because he does actually kind of admit to his true motivations here. For all his earlier protests that he couldn't lie to the dean because he loves Luke too much, or that he thought he was doing the right thing for Luke, here he comes very close to admitting that the real reason he turned Luke is was to punish him for not doing what Noah wanted. He doesn't put it quite this way, but it basically boils down to, he was upset that Luke could get hurt and worked up over the way he was being treated by Kevin (although, in fairness, Luke really only thought it was Kevin -- Kevin was never really on board with all the crap Mark Vero was doing). I do kind of believe Noah when he says he didn't think Luke would get expelled, he thought Luke would just be removed from office, but I'm convinced the main reason Noah went to the dean was because he was still pissed off that Luke didn't jump to do his bidding when he'd demanded Luke quit the campaign. Noah never wanted Luke to run for school president, and IMO he ratted Luke out to make sure he got his way.
The other main reason I'm including this clip is because the end of this clip should SO TOTALLY have been the end of their relationship. The writers should never have tried to bring them back from this, especially they way they eventually did it, where they barely even acknowledged the issues that had driven them apart in the first place.
This ends today's edition of "Douchey Moments in History: Noah Mayer Edition" -- I'll be posting future editions from time to time from now until December 19th. The next edition is scheduled for Monday, December 6th.
"I don't want to see you get rejected and feel that way... I mean, what if everyone votes for him and no one votes for you?"
I don't have a lot to say about this clip. It mostly boils down to, I don't think Noah could possibly have been LESS supportive of Luke's decision to run for student body president. Are there any more ways he could think of to try to undermine Luke's confidence in himself? KEVIN gives Luke a greater show of support than Noah does!
Click to view"Quit."
I think Luke has been pretty clear that he's running for student body president for real reasons, that there are real issues he genuinely cares about -- first among them Noah's film festival -- and that while the idea of beating Kevin is appealing, that is not the reason he's doing it.
Noah, however, is convinced that the real reason, the ONLY reason, Luke cares about winning the student body election is because he's still hung up on Kevin, and when Luke asks what Noah wants him to do, Noah tries to insist that Luke quit the election. (And can I just point out that the way Noah apparently doesn't want Luke to have any life outside of his relationship with Noah is SUCH a big red warning flag for an abusive relationship.) Of course, when Luke doesn't immediately cave in and agree to do whatever Noah wants, as far as Noah is concerned the conversation is over and he storms off in a douchey little huff.
"Well I am proud of us, but you know what? I won't be if you cheat."
One thing I find really interesting in this clip is the fact that, even though Noah and Alison are both making pretty much the same argument to Luke and Casey respectively, and even though I entirely agree with the argument they are making and entirely disagree with what Luke and Casey did here, IMO Noah comes across as an obnoxious ass, whereas Alison comes across as rational and level headed. And it has nothing to do with me liking one character more than the other, because at the time this first aired I still kind of liked Noah, and I've always been kind of meh on Alison. But there is a difference in the way they present their arguments. IMO, Alison is all about doing the right thing because it's the right thing. Noah, OTOH, may have started there, but his argument seems to me to quickly devolve into emotional blackmail. It may have started out as "don't do it because it's wrong" but IMO it quickly turned into "don't do it because the guy I fell in love with wouldn't act that way... don't do it because I won't love you anymore if you do." So, there you go, even when I completely agree with Noah's side of the argument, he can still come across to me as a complete and utter DOUCHE.
Another thing that really strikes me, not just in this clip but throughout this whole storyline, Luke has several times talked about the way Kevin made him feel when he came out, and how the memory of that is still painful. If someone I cared about told me something like that, my reaction to that would be to offer them empathy and compassion and understanding of how hard that must have been to go through and/or to ask them if they want to talk about it. To me, Noah barely seems to give a crap about what Luke went through except to the extent that he can use it to question whether Luke is still in love with Kevin... which, by extension, means he's using Luke's pain as a reason to question whether Luke loves him. Because, obviously, Luke's pain is irrelevant except to the extent that it can somehow be made to be all about Noah.
Now, I want to make it clear that I'm not blaming Noah for what Luke did, that is all on Luke. But I can't help but wonder if Luke would have still done it if Noah had offered him more understanding and compassion for the pain Kevin had caused him back in high school and that still lingered, rather than using Luke's pain as an excuse to question their own relationship and storm off in another douchey huff.
"I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it... you're getting very good at that."
More stuff about the stolen election, and again here, I really feel like Alison is upset with Casey because she feels like what he did was wrong, whereas to me Noah seems more upset because Luke didn't do what he wanted. I just feel like his attitude is not so much one of "what you did was wrong" as it is "the idealized version of you I created in my head wouldn't do something like this; how dare you not be that guy."
Of course, to be fair, the issue with Noah not really being in love with Luke (but rather with an idealized version of him that never really existed) is an issue that goes both ways. I had to kind of laugh a little when Luke said, "will you please tell me when my boyfriend gets back" -- it makes me kind of wish I could break down that fourth wall and point out to Luke that "his boyfriend" didn't go anywhere. He's exactly the guy he's always been, and he's standing right there in front of him.
(On a side note, one of the most absolutely awesome things about Luke and Reid is that, considering they originally met under conditions where Luke blackmailed Reid, and Reid acted like a total ass to him for quite a while, neither of them is suffering under any delusions about the person they are with. When Reid says he loves Luke, he really means LUKE, and not some idealized version of Luke he invented in his head. The reverse is true, too -- Luke is in love with REID, the good and the bad, with no delusions about him being someone he isn't.)
(On another side note... 98% voter turnout? And Luke and Casey didn't think they'd get caught? Couple of geniuses, huh?
)
"I didn't have a choice."
I don't think I even need to point out why Noah is such a douche in this clip, since Casey is awesome and does it for me! But you do gotta love the way, in Noah's mind, having a man in a position of authority ask him about it = "I didn't have a choice."
"You wanted to get back at him."
I wasn't sure whether to include this clip on not, because there's nothing really new about the ways in which Noah is douchey here, but I decided to include it mainly because he does actually kind of admit to his true motivations here. For all his earlier protests that he couldn't lie to the dean because he loves Luke too much, or that he thought he was doing the right thing for Luke, here he comes very close to admitting that the real reason he turned Luke is was to punish him for not doing what Noah wanted. He doesn't put it quite this way, but it basically boils down to, he was upset that Luke could get hurt and worked up over the way he was being treated by Kevin (although, in fairness, Luke really only thought it was Kevin -- Kevin was never really on board with all the crap Mark Vero was doing). I do kind of believe Noah when he says he didn't think Luke would get expelled, he thought Luke would just be removed from office, but I'm convinced the main reason Noah went to the dean was because he was still pissed off that Luke didn't jump to do his bidding when he'd demanded Luke quit the campaign. Noah never wanted Luke to run for school president, and IMO he ratted Luke out to make sure he got his way.
The other main reason I'm including this clip is because the end of this clip should SO TOTALLY have been the end of their relationship. The writers should never have tried to bring them back from this, especially they way they eventually did it, where they barely even acknowledged the issues that had driven them apart in the first place.
This ends today's edition of "Douchey Moments in History: Noah Mayer Edition" -- I'll be posting future editions from time to time from now until December 19th. The next edition is scheduled for Monday, December 6th.