A good FS bike will last you a long time, and the least expensive frame maker is the one I have - Jamis. Excellent quality, small company, reasonable prices. In order to get a good frame *and* components under $1k, though, you're going to have to get lucky with a clearance sale. A shitty FS is a far worse thing than a good hardtail. I paid about $1.3k for mine after extensive research and shopping around, and it was the best I could do 2 years ago. Hopefully prices have dropped a couple hundred by now for the same level of tech. To get down to $800 or under, you're probably going to have to buy used.
For other frames - Specialized is overpriced but good geometry. Santa Cruz VPP frames are awesome for reducing pedal bob, but are very expensive. Cannondale is ok, but no longer considered optimal for FS bikes. Kona is very durable, but also quite heavy and are built for abuse.
Mostly, though, given that you've never even ridden what I consider a real hardtail (ie, not a KMart special ;) ), I *strongly* urge you to go rent a good hardtail and a good FS bike and ride some trails. You will notice the difference, but you may or may not like the FS ride, especially if you'll be spending a lot of time on pavement. Be gentle with your braking - disc brakes are often standard now, and they brake a lot faster & harder than what you're used to!
You know we'd be happy to take you out sometime. There are some shops not too far from us that rent both HT and FS mtn bikes. If you give me enough notice, I might even be able to find a 13" for Carla. :)
Wow, thanks for the offer! I have a feeling we might take you up on that sometime!
I know people have told me to go rent first to see what I want to buy. Yes, I know that renting a couple of times (say, in Big Bear = $50/per rental = $100), and I know $100 isn't that much, but damn! That's 10% of a $1k bike! I'd almost rather just buy one that I've test ridden around a couple of blocks and hope that I can adapt to it.
Since you mentioned it, what do you think about buying used? I am afraid of cracking a frame because whoever owned the bike before me might have really abused it. But in general, do peole basically stay away from used bikes?
Then again, I'm sure around the South Bay there are quite a few folks who went out and purchased these really expensive bikes, rode them around the boardwalk a few times, and went back to their Krispy Kreme lifestyles. I should watch out for garage sales and the like -- I know that's a long shot, but what the hell, right?
I gotta ask you again - what exactly are you planning to ride this bike on? Are you thinking (a)hardcore downhill trails at Mammoth or (b)local mtn cross-country or (c)mostly just around the streets for exercise?
Worrying about things like breaking the frame...unless you're doing a lot of (a) you're not likely to be riding hard enuf to break a frame - same goes for the prior owner of a used bike. For (b), buying a known brand used FS bike should be totally fine. Don't buy an FS bike that's more than 3 years old - the technology has changed a lot and the old ones will have too much pedal bob.
If your focus is (c), I don't think you have any reason to drop $800-$1k+ on a full-suspension bike. You are better off spending $500-600 on a good hard tail with a second set of rims & slick tires, and renting a nice big-hit bike (6-8in of travel!) on the rare occasion that you hit up Mammoth or the like.
I learned to mtn bike on a rigid bike (no shocks - not even front). A hard tail is a big step above that. For occasional local trail riding, you'll be fine on a hard tail, and it's much better for "exercise" rides on the road.
Well, indeed I bought a season pass for Bear Mtn./Snow Summit back in April, which was good for the remainder of this past season, ALL SUMMER! and next season. So, since my snowboarding buddy (Evan, who came to a Grub n' Beats at your house a few years back) is also my mtb buddy, and ALSO has a pass for Big Bear, I think we're going to be doing some fairly serious downhill stuff this summer (and going forward, once I have a nice ride ;)
For my around town/burning man/everything else, I am going to keep riding my "regular" bike ... that way, I don't have to worry about it getting stolen or whatever. I do intend to put a clipless pedal system on it, once I get the "nice" bike w/ the pedal system (so I can build my legs up properly on the "regular" bike as well).
I hear you though. I know a good hardtail with decent travel in the fork is miles better than a non-suspended bike. And I also hear you about buying a "cheap" FS ride -- I think I will just take a longview on the purchase, since I need to continue to save up anyways. There are dozens of bike shops in the South Bay, I'll start hitting them up this weekend to look for deals on last year's models and perhaps consignment bikes. If you think that a used, brand-name bike from a LBS would be OK, then I will keep an eye out for those as well.
Thanks again for all your input, Div! You are the best!
A used bike from an LBS may be tough to find, but check out the classifieds on mtbr.com. I haven't tried Ebay, so I can't be any help there. Much like a used car, you can get a bike shop to evaluate a used bike before you buy it. Or bring Ryan along - he used to work at a bike shop in high school.
And not to bust your bubble on the downhilling, but rumor has it that Summit/Bear is closing all of their trails except the fire roads to mtn bikes. There is talk of some downhill stuff opening up around Baldy, too. Of course, there's plenty of fun (and free) cross-country trails in the LA/OC/SB area, but you have to ride uphill, too. ;)
Hmm -- I am curious where you heard those nasty rumors! ;)
Evan says that last year there were some technical single tracks open last season, in addition to the fire roads you refer to. Also, he said that the winter ski runs are NOT open, due to the grade and thus the liability problems associated with this. :) I don't think I'd be game for going down what is normally a ski run anyways!
Yeah, there are some pretty good trails actually in Palos Verdes. We have horse trails and a couple of hiking/bike trails on the backside that lead down into Portuguese Bend (I've hiked these and they are fun!).
I rode up at Snow Summit last July for the Women Only Weekend mtn bike camp. The fireroads were scenic, but the singletracks were definitely the fun part. I'll be keeping tabs on the forums for reports from people who ride there, but it's not sounding good so far...
If you ever wanna ride in OC, you know where to find us. :)
Wow, that is disappointing to hear! Thanks for the link though -- I'll keep an eye on the thread.
Perhaps there are some good x-country trails up there. I want to ride PV but I think it's dangerous going once you are down on the street (specifically, the last part of PV Drive before you get into the part near the fire station, city hall, etc.).
For other frames - Specialized is overpriced but good geometry. Santa Cruz VPP frames are awesome for reducing pedal bob, but are very expensive. Cannondale is ok, but no longer considered optimal for FS bikes. Kona is very durable, but also quite heavy and are built for abuse.
Mostly, though, given that you've never even ridden what I consider a real hardtail (ie, not a KMart special ;) ), I *strongly* urge you to go rent a good hardtail and a good FS bike and ride some trails. You will notice the difference, but you may or may not like the FS ride, especially if you'll be spending a lot of time on pavement. Be gentle with your braking - disc brakes are often standard now, and they brake a lot faster & harder than what you're used to!
You know we'd be happy to take you out sometime. There are some shops not too far from us that rent both HT and FS mtn bikes. If you give me enough notice, I might even be able to find a 13" for Carla. :)
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I know people have told me to go rent first to see what I want to buy. Yes, I know that renting a couple of times (say, in Big Bear = $50/per rental = $100), and I know $100 isn't that much, but damn! That's 10% of a $1k bike! I'd almost rather just buy one that I've test ridden around a couple of blocks and hope that I can adapt to it.
Since you mentioned it, what do you think about buying used? I am afraid of cracking a frame because whoever owned the bike before me might have really abused it. But in general, do peole basically stay away from used bikes?
Then again, I'm sure around the South Bay there are quite a few folks who went out and purchased these really expensive bikes, rode them around the boardwalk a few times, and went back to their Krispy Kreme lifestyles. I should watch out for garage sales and the like -- I know that's a long shot, but what the hell, right?
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Worrying about things like breaking the frame...unless you're doing a lot of (a) you're not likely to be riding hard enuf to break a frame - same goes for the prior owner of a used bike. For (b), buying a known brand used FS bike should be totally fine. Don't buy an FS bike that's more than 3 years old - the technology has changed a lot and the old ones will have too much pedal bob.
If your focus is (c), I don't think you have any reason to drop $800-$1k+ on a full-suspension bike. You are better off spending $500-600 on a good hard tail with a second set of rims & slick tires, and renting a nice big-hit bike (6-8in of travel!) on the rare occasion that you hit up Mammoth or the like.
I learned to mtn bike on a rigid bike (no shocks - not even front). A hard tail is a big step above that. For occasional local trail riding, you'll be fine on a hard tail, and it's much better for "exercise" rides on the road.
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For my around town/burning man/everything else, I am going to keep riding my "regular" bike ... that way, I don't have to worry about it getting stolen or whatever. I do intend to put a clipless pedal system on it, once I get the "nice" bike w/ the pedal system (so I can build my legs up properly on the "regular" bike as well).
I hear you though. I know a good hardtail with decent travel in the fork is miles better than a non-suspended bike. And I also hear you about buying a "cheap" FS ride -- I think I will just take a longview on the purchase, since I need to continue to save up anyways. There are dozens of bike shops in the South Bay, I'll start hitting them up this weekend to look for deals on last year's models and perhaps consignment bikes. If you think that a used, brand-name bike from a LBS would be OK, then I will keep an eye out for those as well.
Thanks again for all your input, Div! You are the best!
Reply
A used bike from an LBS may be tough to find, but check out the classifieds on mtbr.com. I haven't tried Ebay, so I can't be any help there. Much like a used car, you can get a bike shop to evaluate a used bike before you buy it. Or bring Ryan along - he used to work at a bike shop in high school.
And not to bust your bubble on the downhilling, but rumor has it that Summit/Bear is closing all of their trails except the fire roads to mtn bikes. There is talk of some downhill stuff opening up around Baldy, too. Of course, there's plenty of fun (and free) cross-country trails in the LA/OC/SB area, but you have to ride uphill, too. ;)
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Evan says that last year there were some technical single tracks open last season, in addition to the fire roads you refer to. Also, he said that the winter ski runs are NOT open, due to the grade and thus the liability problems associated with this. :) I don't think I'd be game for going down what is normally a ski run anyways!
Yeah, there are some pretty good trails actually in Palos Verdes. We have horse trails and a couple of hiking/bike trails on the backside that lead down into Portuguese Bend (I've hiked these and they are fun!).
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http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=192188
I rode up at Snow Summit last July for the Women Only Weekend mtn bike camp. The fireroads were scenic, but the singletracks were definitely the fun part. I'll be keeping tabs on the forums for reports from people who ride there, but it's not sounding good so far...
If you ever wanna ride in OC, you know where to find us. :)
Reply
Perhaps there are some good x-country trails up there. I want to ride PV but I think it's dangerous going once you are down on the street (specifically, the last part of PV Drive before you get into the part near the fire station, city hall, etc.).
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