The Validity of NnoiNel / A NnoiNel Manifesto Mark 2

[allelujah]

NnoiNel Manifesto Mark 2
by femmelujah

Largely a response to several doubts, and aging nearly 3 years, I have made some addendums to my opinions and felt some things about NNoiNel needed to be restated as well as redone.

Comments

[hinodeh]

Nnoitra's sexism: I personally understand why people think that he's sexist, what I do disagree with, though, is people casting sexism as the central conflict between Nnoitra and Neliel. It's not. In fact, he only ever says it once to Tesla but never to Neliel.

The central conflict is as you say:

-Nnoitra wanting to die by Neliel's hand because that means that she has acknowledged him as a warrior, or defeating her, which is as you said, him wanting her respect.

Of course, that doesn't make him a sad misunderstood woobie to whom Neliel is sooo mean. Nnoitra treats people horribly because he has given up on trying to gain redemption, since according to him, none of the arrancar will ever get it. This despair leds him to seek battle, so that the thrill of it will drive the despair away until he dies.

In that sense, I think this is the other conflict between Nnoitra and Neliel: he has given up while she still believes in being a honorable, merciful warrior and also protecting others, if we are to believe her volume poem.
Hueco Mundo has broken him and brought out the worst in him (not claiming that he was good before, we simply don't know at all), while she has endured.

All in all, interesting update on your view on NnoiNel. You make good points and made me see something I haven't seen before.

I tend to think that Neliel is the most important person in Nnoitra's life, and the same is true in reverse. Hatred or casting this as the evil sexist man vs the good feminist woman misses the point and makes this relationship into a boring black/white conflict which brushes over the layers and compliactions of their relationship, violent and dark as it may be.

Nnoitra has changed somewhat due to her, even if it was not enough to call it a redemption or save him, and you pointed out some evidence which shows, that in his own messed up way, him came to like fighting her in a way he didn't like fighting anyone else. I guess he had fun, to an extent?

As to her, his death seems to have bothered her and made her sad, which also opens the door to her having protected him in the past because she wanted him around, despite the fights, arguments and death threats, despite her claims that she only spared him because he wasn't worth killing, too weak etc.

They can't live peacefully and healthly together, but they probably both feel that life without the other isn't quite as interesting or good and a bit emptier, even though they can go on and are not driven to suicide or depression by the other's absence.

[allelujah]

I completely agree. As always, you make for fun discussions hinodeh <3 And yeah, I really agree with your end point there. They can exist without each other but as we can see from Nnoitra, it annoys them. He obviously spent all that time doing small things to 'improve' himself and 'get stronger' when the only person criticizing him for it that we know of is a woman who's opinion he 'doesn't care about'. xD

[hinodeh]

Thank you!

Well yeah, I understand why he was so annoyed. Here he had found the (in his POV) perfect way to deal with this miserable, depressing life: battleholism and no mercy, and along comes Neliel, who strives to be good, noble and protective, and also happens to be stronger than him. Her existence alone chanllenged his whole worldview and philosophy.

And Neliel was suddnly confronted with this crude, violent, cruel and suicidal guy who kept challenging her so that she would either kill him or so that he could win. There was no way she would prove this guy's view on life true, so she refused to validate his world view.