We've started sleep-training Elizabeth, today. We've had a few weeks of her resisting going down for both naps and bed, so it's clearly time to make a set schedule, and ruthlessly stick by it
( Read more... )
Here's what I think, take it or leave it. I've read a bunch of books, talked to a bunch of moms, and this is what I've come up with.
You do not need to sleep-train. All babies will learn to go to sleep by themselves eventually. It makes you feel sick for a reason: it's stressing your attachment relationship, and that's a biological bond that's supposed to prevent this sort of thing. When Elizabeth eventually goes to sleep, it's because she's given up in despair, not because she's learned to soothe herself.
Is there a reason that you need her to go to sleep on her own Right Now? Sleeping through the night (and going to sleep on one's own) is something that will happen eventually, and for most families (sleep-training or not) it doesn't happen for a few years. Often parents that sleep-train find that it works (superficially) for a little while, but as soon as anything (traveling, teething, illness) derails it they have to do the whole horrible process over again.
It seems like anyone promoting sleep-training is either some random parent (or worse, childless nanny!) or a pediatrician that isn't looking at long-term consequences. Any article I've read by anyone looking at the relationship between mom and baby or the long-term consequences to the baby's brain have basically said that it's not at all a good idea.
If you really want to get her to go to sleep by herself sooner than she would otherwise, wait until she's gotten her first set of molars and then use the gentle methods in "No Cry Sleep Solution" (Elizabeth Pantley). Here's a brief exerpt: . She has a modified, as gentle as possible version of sleep training.
They're so little for such a short period of time, and in that time they lay mental paths that will determine how they interact with the world for the rest of their lives. It's difficult not getting enough sleep, or spending Every Night :P getting a baby or toddler to sleep. Is there another way that you can take care of your own needs without impacting Elizabeth in this way?
Hi, we don't know each other but I wanted to comment on your comment. I'm mom to a one-year-old girl and we did sleep training last November (with help from sleepsense.net) and it was a great success. I appreciate that there are as many "right" ways to parent as there are parents, but I wanted to respond to your question about Why Right Now? For us, sleep training at 7 months was the right choice because I really wanted to address the sleep issue before Gwen could (a) stand up in her crib and (b) cry "Mommy" as part of her protest crying. I knew I could not withstand that! Many moms I know made the same decision.
I think every mom knows her child best and provided she is making the decision based on that knowledge, and the true reflection of what is good for her family as a whole, she will not go wrong. Every family is different. I think Elizabeth Pantley makes the point quite clearly in her book that no one else - not doctor or neighbour or mother in law or family member - should be the one to decide that it's time to improve the baby's sleep habits. That parents should not make these decisions based on what they think other people are expecting them to do. That was a very empowering statement and I apply it to most of my parenting decisions.
To be honest, sleep training vastly improved my relationship with my daughter. While we worked on the process together, I watched her constantly for "tired" cues so that I could go through our pre-sleep routine and time it for when she'd be going to sleep naturally anyway. This resulted in us developing a very strong communication and a very deep bond. It was also an incredibly humbling feeling to realize how proud I was of her for learning to self-soothe.
Anyway, just my two cents. Best wishes always to you and your family.
We decided to start sleep training because Elizabeth was showing signs of exhaustion (rubbing her eyes, yawning, slumping over, even bags under her eyes), but refusing to go to sleep. We gave her warm bottles of formula, held her and walked, put her in her swing, but she would get drowsy, close her eyes and then open them again and start kicking. She was actively fighting sleep when it was clear she desperately needed it. On top of that, she was more and more cranky, more and more of the time, so it was clear she wasn't getting enough sleep.
We decided to follow the dominant advice (you aren't the first person to mention the attachment thing, fruitcakechevy, but you are in the minority) and give her a more consistent schedule, putting her down for a nap and bed at the same time every day. She screamed for 75-90 minutes yesterday, each time. She woke up both times happy and cheerful, affectionate and _rested_.
Today she went down both times with barely a whimper, and went straight to sleep.
I believe that consistency is one of the most important elements of parenting, and so I'm willing to believe that that applies to sleep schedules as well.
Considering that she never really had colic, her teething has been reasonably mild, and she has a happy, even temperment, in all, Elizabeth has spent much less time than the average baby, crying. I didn't enjoy sitting outside her room, listening to her scream, but if she's going to get the sleep she needs, from now on, it was well worth it.
I don't think our attachment suffered for it, and, while there are differing points of view on whether or not it's dangerous to let your baby cry, everyone agrees that getting enough sleep is absolutely critical.
I rewrote my response about a dozen times.. Sleep (and sleep-training) is one of the mommy-war things that is difficult to talk about while showing the other party that you DO respect their position, and that they are certainly the expert when it comes to their child. I feel very strongly about my position, so I don't want to sound wishy-washy and conciliatory, but I also want the other party to actually listen to what I have to say. I hope I got that across without sounding terribly strident :P
It sounds like you're doing what works for you. I wanted to make sure you were also keeping the long view in mind, and knew about the new research in to brain development. Our culture does some crazy things (fast-food, perms, ex-President Bush, and cattle feedlots come to mind), and just because something works in the short term doesn't mean that it's a good idea. But you know your baby, and you're right: enough sleep is absolutely critical :)
No, I appreciate it, really. I also know that _you_ know, once you tell people you're pregnant, you get inundated with contradictory advice and information, and we all have to wade through it as best we can.
I've dropped her, four times, and once involved her flipping over the changing table, whanging her forehead against the corner of the table and falling, face down, like a brick onto the floor.
I'm not terribly consistent with the alphabet flash cards, mostly because it's a battle to keep her from trying to eat them.
She's going to eat fast food and refined sugar. Not often, but it's going to happen from time to time.
She may not go to French Immersion, or an IB school.
Basically what I'm saying is, no matter what we do, no matter how hard we try, no child lives up to the potential they are born with. The world is a gritty, shitty, dirty place. I'm going to screw up and reduce that potential. So are you. So does everyone.
When I dropped Elizabeth off the changing table, she cried for a few minutes, and then took a bottle and took a nap. Then I cried for half an hour and called my sister. My sister heard the whole story and said, cheerfully, "Oh, well. There goes Harvard."
We used to smoke around our kids. We used to tie our kids to boards to make their limbs grow straight. Somehow, the human race survived. And while I am happy to learn how to avoid things like SIDS and brain damage and childhood obesity, I need to find a system that works, knowing that, no matter what I choose, I'm going to do some damage. And, hopefully, less damage than the generations that came before me.
I'm glad that I have you on my list as a resource, and a support. Please don't stop giving me advice when you think of it. I always want to hear it, even when I don't choose to follow it. :)
Jeremy (it could have just as easily been me) dropped a very wiggly Josh headfirst on the cement front step once. My dad (a doctor) rushed over while the rest of us were still wondering what that noise was, and said, "Wow, you really cracked your head there!".. meaning that he'd bonked it, of course, but I had horrible visions of brains everywhere for the brief seconds before I got outside. I'm sure I dropped him at least twice on other occasions. No Harvard for us either, I fear :P
And I really thought that I could prevent Josh from eating refined sugar until he was at least 2, or maybe even 3. Not so much :P
We all muddle through the best we can with the information (and patience) we have available on any given day. No one really knows which action will lead to which reaction in any given child when the consequence of an action is so distantly separated from when the action occurred. There is no way to devise a perfect (and ethical) experiment, barring widespread cloning and horrible sci-fi movie reenactments. Still, I think that survival is not the standard we should judge ourselves by.
I worry that labeling sleep as a problem that must be solved is not necessarily helpful. Reading sleep books has been like reading fashion magazines for me: beforehand, I feel fine, but afterward I need plastic surgery and an entirely new wardrobe.
In my experience, all the problems we've had with sleep have been temporary things that resolve themselves without much effort on my part except for paying increased attention to sleep signals and spending a few days paying attention to what Josh is interested in instead of trying to get stuff done around him. I treat a sleep issue as a signal to look at what else went on that day.
We give too much credence to expert opinion (I'm so guilty of this!), when what we should all be doing is trusting our instincts, and trusting our child to get there eventually. After all, they won't be (nursing to sleep, throwing food on the floor, demanding that the monkey puppet get eaten by the couch AGAIN AND AGAIN, using diapers, or whatever else) in high school. I feel that sleep training is like pulling the petals of a rosebud open because you want to see the flower a few days early. It's not good for the rose, and it would do it by itself if we just have patience.
Actually, it's funny you said that. When I was a baby, my mom asked her doctor when she should start potty training me, and the doctor said, "Don't."
My mom was like, "What do you mean, don't?"
The doctor said, "No emotionally stable child goes to kindergarten in diapers. She'll figure it out."
Now, while I agree with that, in principle, I also think there are times when we need to take a hand in these things. For example, I'd like her potty trained before she's two, so it's just a thing she learns, and not power-struggle fodder. We're going to start on it as soon as she's able to walk over to a potty, sit down on it, and stand back up. Plus, I'm already sick of diapers, and so is she.
I also, as I said, wouldn't have started sleep training her if it wasn't obvious to both of us that she was actively fighting going to sleep, and not getting enough sleep. I was clear that a laissez faire attitude from us was no longer workable.
And, I'm glad to say, so far (knock wood), the sleep training seems to be working like a dream. The first day was god-awful, but she's already seemed to get it, and is going to sleep very easily. Now, that could all turn around tonight or tomorrow or next Thursday, but for now I'm guardedly optimistic that this was the right decision.
This is, yet again, one of those happy middle grounds we all need to find for ourselves. How much should let our kids do their own thing and learn at their own pace, and how much should we, as the adults, steer their development because we have a longer view than they do? We know that mastering one skill is required for mastering subsequent skills, and we know about the timeline of childhood (terrible twos, when school begins, etc). I know some parents who home school, and have always had the philosophy that their kids will learn what they want, when they want. One of these couples's youngest child still couldn't read at eleven (she'd never been interested in it, and her older siblings did it for her). I think that's negligent, personally. On the other hand, I don't want to control every moment of my child's life, or give them neuroses because they're not learning new skills at my arbitrary time table. So, the happy medium must be found....
Yeah, I suppose that our potty-training early is strange given my overall laid-backness about letting Josh tell me when he's ready to learn stuff. Maybe babies are born ready, and we aren't listening :) Still, we managed to accomplish it with this attitude as a guide, and we're happy about how it came about. It's gentle, there's no crying, and if we're having an off day there's always tomorrow. I hope your (and Elizabeth's) experience is similar. If you want to start before she's walking (or even part-time, or once a day), there's a good book with suggestions that's available either at your library or through ILL at mine: "Diaper Free Baby" (Gross-Low). The other books were all too hard-core no-diapers (pee everywhere!) for me :)
I can't ever agree that sleep-training solves a problem that can't be solved in another fashion. There's no way that learning that your parents will not come to you at certain times (no matter how much you scream) prevents the learning of other skills. I strongly support your ability to make your own decisions about your child, though, and am happy that you don't mind me presenting my point of view here.
Well, the sleep training decision didn't really have anything to do with her development schedule.
In fact, I had no intention of imposing a regular sleep schedule on her this early. But she wasn't getting enough sleep, and no matter how exhausted she was, it was becoming a battle. I was starting to spend hours just trying to put her down, every day. She'd be tired, so I'd change her, get a bottle ready and give it to her, rub her tummy, play soft music. She'd fuss when I put her down, settle a bit when I put the bottle in her mouth, but then start kicking and waving her arms, knocking the bottle out of my hand. After half an hour of this I'd give up, and get her up, and try again an hour later. Half my day was spent trying to get her to get the sleep she needed. This was time taken away from playing with her, taking her out, reading to her, etc. And she was constantly tired and constantly cranky and inattentive.
For one day, I let her scream a total of three hours. Now, she goes straight to bed, and straight to sleep. No fighting, no kicking. She occasionally whimpers sleepily for a few minutes, when she drops her bottle (I now insist she hold it herself), but then she figures it out.
She's well rested. And now we have time to play, read, go out and do things. Jason and I have time in the evenings to catch up on the housework, or watch tv, or whatever. Putting her down takes a matter of minutes (longer in the evenings, as we read stories and have a longer wind down). Her life, and mine, are so materially improved, I can't regret the decision.
I'm very lucky, that the transition was so ridiculously fast and easy. And I wouldn't insist that this (or, really, anything) is the right course of action for every parent or every child. But, in our case, it's been an absolute success.
It sounds like you guys were having a hard time, and that it's easier now. I'm not sure what to say, other than that. I like reading your updates.. I'd wondered where you'd gone these past few months. I hope you're enjoying the sun!
Oh, I had three massive shows in a row, that ate up every spare minute of my time. But, I'm taking a few months off, for the most part, so I can start it up again, which is nice. Especially since I'm partially using lj to chronicle Elizabeth's babyhood.
I'm _sweltering_! People told me it was a big mistake to take Elizabeth to Clinton, this year, but today was as hot as I've ever seen it at Clinton, PLUS muggy, and we haven't got air conditioning. I figure if she survives until Clinton, I'm taking her up there!
(With hats and sunblock and sun shades and a wading pool and lots of common sense and fluids and warm bundling at night, etc)
We're not doing too badly.. we've got an old, intelligently-built house (which helps some, as long as I open the right windows at the right time) and a heat-pump (which does the rest). Josh likes to be outside, though and it was way hotter than I'd expected in early June. I can't even THINK about August.. we'll probably spend the whole month at the waterpark.
No, I think Clinton with a baby would be fun! Especially since you're not lacking in the common-sense department :) Josh and I are going camping somewhere else that weekend (on a lake!), otherwise I'd seriously consider it.. even if it would be my first SCA event in years, Clinton is special and heavy linen dresses have been calling me. We did the Island Music Festival with Josh last year, and that was hot, muggy, and super-fun.
We were going to! We weren't due until the 18th. We were going to go up there, Jason was going to do everything, I was going to sit in the shade and drink lemonade, and we would be back more than two weeks before her due date.
But then they induced me and she was born on the 1st.
It wasn't all that bad. Apparently the city threw a fireworks display AND a Gay Pride parade just to celebrate her birth. I thought it was very nice of them.
You do not need to sleep-train. All babies will learn to go to sleep by themselves eventually. It makes you feel sick for a reason: it's stressing your attachment relationship, and that's a biological bond that's supposed to prevent this sort of thing. When Elizabeth eventually goes to sleep, it's because she's given up in despair, not because she's learned to soothe herself.
Is there a reason that you need her to go to sleep on her own Right Now? Sleeping through the night (and going to sleep on one's own) is something that will happen eventually, and for most families (sleep-training or not) it doesn't happen for a few years. Often parents that sleep-train find that it works (superficially) for a little while, but as soon as anything (traveling, teething, illness) derails it they have to do the whole horrible process over again.
It seems like anyone promoting sleep-training is either some random parent (or worse, childless nanny!) or a pediatrician that isn't looking at long-term consequences. Any article I've read by anyone looking at the relationship between mom and baby or the long-term consequences to the baby's brain have basically said that it's not at all a good idea.
If you really want to get her to go to sleep by herself sooner than she would otherwise, wait until she's gotten her first set of molars and then use the gentle methods in "No Cry Sleep Solution" (Elizabeth Pantley). Here's a brief exerpt: . She has a modified, as gentle as possible version of sleep training.
They're so little for such a short period of time, and in that time they lay mental paths that will determine how they interact with the world for the rest of their lives. It's difficult not getting enough sleep, or spending Every Night :P getting a baby or toddler to sleep. Is there another way that you can take care of your own needs without impacting Elizabeth in this way?
Here's some articles, if you want:
Reply
I think every mom knows her child best and provided she is making the decision based on that knowledge, and the true reflection of what is good for her family as a whole, she will not go wrong. Every family is different. I think Elizabeth Pantley makes the point quite clearly in her book that no one else - not doctor or neighbour or mother in law or family member - should be the one to decide that it's time to improve the baby's sleep habits. That parents should not make these decisions based on what they think other people are expecting them to do. That was a very empowering statement and I apply it to most of my parenting decisions.
To be honest, sleep training vastly improved my relationship with my daughter. While we worked on the process together, I watched her constantly for "tired" cues so that I could go through our pre-sleep routine and time it for when she'd be going to sleep naturally anyway. This resulted in us developing a very strong communication and a very deep bond. It was also an incredibly humbling feeling to realize how proud I was of her for learning to self-soothe.
Anyway, just my two cents. Best wishes always to you and your family.
Reply
We decided to follow the dominant advice (you aren't the first person to mention the attachment thing, fruitcakechevy, but you are in the minority) and give her a more consistent schedule, putting her down for a nap and bed at the same time every day. She screamed for 75-90 minutes yesterday, each time. She woke up both times happy and cheerful, affectionate and _rested_.
Today she went down both times with barely a whimper, and went straight to sleep.
I believe that consistency is one of the most important elements of parenting, and so I'm willing to believe that that applies to sleep schedules as well.
Considering that she never really had colic, her teething has been reasonably mild, and she has a happy, even temperment, in all, Elizabeth has spent much less time than the average baby, crying. I didn't enjoy sitting outside her room, listening to her scream, but if she's going to get the sleep she needs, from now on, it was well worth it.
I don't think our attachment suffered for it, and, while there are differing points of view on whether or not it's dangerous to let your baby cry, everyone agrees that getting enough sleep is absolutely critical.
But thanks for your concern.
Reply
It sounds like you're doing what works for you. I wanted to make sure you were also keeping the long view in mind, and knew about the new research in to brain development. Our culture does some crazy things (fast-food, perms, ex-President Bush, and cattle feedlots come to mind), and just because something works in the short term doesn't mean that it's a good idea. But you know your baby, and you're right: enough sleep is absolutely critical :)
Reply
I've dropped her, four times, and once involved her flipping over the changing table, whanging her forehead against the corner of the table and falling, face down, like a brick onto the floor.
I'm not terribly consistent with the alphabet flash cards, mostly because it's a battle to keep her from trying to eat them.
She's going to eat fast food and refined sugar. Not often, but it's going to happen from time to time.
She may not go to French Immersion, or an IB school.
Basically what I'm saying is, no matter what we do, no matter how hard we try, no child lives up to the potential they are born with. The world is a gritty, shitty, dirty place. I'm going to screw up and reduce that potential. So are you. So does everyone.
When I dropped Elizabeth off the changing table, she cried for a few minutes, and then took a bottle and took a nap. Then I cried for half an hour and called my sister. My sister heard the whole story and said, cheerfully, "Oh, well. There goes Harvard."
We used to smoke around our kids. We used to tie our kids to boards to make their limbs grow straight. Somehow, the human race survived. And while I am happy to learn how to avoid things like SIDS and brain damage and childhood obesity, I need to find a system that works, knowing that, no matter what I choose, I'm going to do some damage. And, hopefully, less damage than the generations that came before me.
I'm glad that I have you on my list as a resource, and a support. Please don't stop giving me advice when you think of it. I always want to hear it, even when I don't choose to follow it. :)
Reply
And I really thought that I could prevent Josh from eating refined sugar until he was at least 2, or maybe even 3. Not so much :P
We all muddle through the best we can with the information (and patience) we have available on any given day. No one really knows which action will lead to which reaction in any given child when the consequence of an action is so distantly separated from when the action occurred. There is no way to devise a perfect (and ethical) experiment, barring widespread cloning and horrible sci-fi movie reenactments. Still, I think that survival is not the standard we should judge ourselves by.
Glad to still be on your list :)
Reply
I worry that labeling sleep as a problem that must be solved is not necessarily helpful. Reading sleep books has been like reading fashion magazines for me: beforehand, I feel fine, but afterward I need plastic surgery and an entirely new wardrobe.
In my experience, all the problems we've had with sleep have been temporary things that resolve themselves without much effort on my part except for paying increased attention to sleep signals and spending a few days paying attention to what Josh is interested in instead of trying to get stuff done around him. I treat a sleep issue as a signal to look at what else went on that day.
We give too much credence to expert opinion (I'm so guilty of this!), when what we should all be doing is trusting our instincts, and trusting our child to get there eventually. After all, they won't be (nursing to sleep, throwing food on the floor, demanding that the monkey puppet get eaten by the couch AGAIN AND AGAIN, using diapers, or whatever else) in high school. I feel that sleep training is like pulling the petals of a rosebud open because you want to see the flower a few days early. It's not good for the rose, and it would do it by itself if we just have patience.
Hope you're enjoying this marvelous sunny day!
Reply
My mom was like, "What do you mean, don't?"
The doctor said, "No emotionally stable child goes to kindergarten in diapers. She'll figure it out."
Now, while I agree with that, in principle, I also think there are times when we need to take a hand in these things. For example, I'd like her potty trained before she's two, so it's just a thing she learns, and not power-struggle fodder. We're going to start on it as soon as she's able to walk over to a potty, sit down on it, and stand back up. Plus, I'm already sick of diapers, and so is she.
I also, as I said, wouldn't have started sleep training her if it wasn't obvious to both of us that she was actively fighting going to sleep, and not getting enough sleep. I was clear that a laissez faire attitude from us was no longer workable.
And, I'm glad to say, so far (knock wood), the sleep training seems to be working like a dream. The first day was god-awful, but she's already seemed to get it, and is going to sleep very easily. Now, that could all turn around tonight or tomorrow or next Thursday, but for now I'm guardedly optimistic that this was the right decision.
This is, yet again, one of those happy middle grounds we all need to find for ourselves. How much should let our kids do their own thing and learn at their own pace, and how much should we, as the adults, steer their development because we have a longer view than they do? We know that mastering one skill is required for mastering subsequent skills, and we know about the timeline of childhood (terrible twos, when school begins, etc). I know some parents who home school, and have always had the philosophy that their kids will learn what they want, when they want. One of these couples's youngest child still couldn't read at eleven (she'd never been interested in it, and her older siblings did it for her). I think that's negligent, personally. On the other hand, I don't want to control every moment of my child's life, or give them neuroses because they're not learning new skills at my arbitrary time table. So, the happy medium must be found....
Reply
I can't ever agree that sleep-training solves a problem that can't be solved in another fashion. There's no way that learning that your parents will not come to you at certain times (no matter how much you scream) prevents the learning of other skills. I strongly support your ability to make your own decisions about your child, though, and am happy that you don't mind me presenting my point of view here.
Reply
In fact, I had no intention of imposing a regular sleep schedule on her this early. But she wasn't getting enough sleep, and no matter how exhausted she was, it was becoming a battle. I was starting to spend hours just trying to put her down, every day. She'd be tired, so I'd change her, get a bottle ready and give it to her, rub her tummy, play soft music. She'd fuss when I put her down, settle a bit when I put the bottle in her mouth, but then start kicking and waving her arms, knocking the bottle out of my hand. After half an hour of this I'd give up, and get her up, and try again an hour later. Half my day was spent trying to get her to get the sleep she needed. This was time taken away from playing with her, taking her out, reading to her, etc. And she was constantly tired and constantly cranky and inattentive.
For one day, I let her scream a total of three hours. Now, she goes straight to bed, and straight to sleep. No fighting, no kicking. She occasionally whimpers sleepily for a few minutes, when she drops her bottle (I now insist she hold it herself), but then she figures it out.
She's well rested. And now we have time to play, read, go out and do things. Jason and I have time in the evenings to catch up on the housework, or watch tv, or whatever. Putting her down takes a matter of minutes (longer in the evenings, as we read stories and have a longer wind down). Her life, and mine, are so materially improved, I can't regret the decision.
I'm very lucky, that the transition was so ridiculously fast and easy. And I wouldn't insist that this (or, really, anything) is the right course of action for every parent or every child. But, in our case, it's been an absolute success.
Reply
Reply
I'm _sweltering_! People told me it was a big mistake to take Elizabeth to Clinton, this year, but today was as hot as I've ever seen it at Clinton, PLUS muggy, and we haven't got air conditioning. I figure if she survives until Clinton, I'm taking her up there!
(With hats and sunblock and sun shades and a wading pool and lots of common sense and fluids and warm bundling at night, etc)
Reply
No, I think Clinton with a baby would be fun! Especially since you're not lacking in the common-sense department :) Josh and I are going camping somewhere else that weekend (on a lake!), otherwise I'd seriously consider it.. even if it would be my first SCA event in years, Clinton is special and heavy linen dresses have been calling me. We did the Island Music Festival with Josh last year, and that was hot, muggy, and super-fun.
Reply
Reply
Reply
But then they induced me and she was born on the 1st.
It wasn't all that bad. Apparently the city threw a fireworks display AND a Gay Pride parade just to celebrate her birth. I thought it was very nice of them.
Reply
Leave a comment