...seems everytime I ask a question a couple dozen people bonk me on the head with scripture. I've got a very basic question here and I'd just like to have an answer from you
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Well, you make a lot of absolute statements there, with no backup. I doubt very much that most scholars would agree the Bible is greatly changed from the original, it's the opposite, as the Dead Sea Scrolls suggest. Also, the Bible says it's more than just a book written by human people, but is inspired by the Spirit of God, as it says it is. As for whether Jesus is God, the Bible says he is. I guess your problem is that you don't trust the Bible (for some reason). Not much point discussing who Jesus is if you don't trust the only document written about him =P Where else are you going to get your information from? Your own ideas about who you think he would have been and what you think is nice or "makes sense", despite the fact God's ways and thoughts are "higher" than yours, as he says they are? There is no doubt that God is a family man, but he has millions of children. As for other religions, the few that do involve actual offspring were people like Zeus who went around raping any goddess he took a liking to. Of course, I suppose he was a family man.. maybe Jesus and him weren't so different =P
Actually, scholars would; there's a number of books on the subject. Inspired by is not the same as written by, that's the beauty of artistic license. I know the Bible says Jesus is God, he may well have been God, but I'm not quite at a point where I accept that yet...the Bible is not the only document written about Jesus either.
Let's just say God and Jesus are the same being. that's still two different levels of existance: one ad a god the other as a mortal. Is it so unthinkable that in human form he was essentually human despite the godliness within?
Oh, I agree. God has many children, Jesus was hardly the only one. Zeus also impregnanted mortals...although the rape term sadly does fit what God did to Mary as well.
Not really, given that Mary consented and it wasn't sexual intercourse. You must be a very arrogant person to accuse God of rape. As for your books, perhaps you should learn more about history that people's opinions. And what other first hand documents written about Jesus are there? There is the gospel of Barnabas (written some hundreds of years after his existence), the supposed gospel of Judas (who betrayed him) and the self-glorifying supposed gospel of Mary? Sure there are documents written about him, but not from reliable sources by people who knew him first hand. And Jesus was unique as we wasn't as much a child of God as God himself, the only human to be 100% God and 100% human - unlike you =P
Maybe I'm misremembering what went on but I was under the impression she went to bed, was awoken by a bright light, and then was pregnant the next morning. Short of an alien abduction scenario, the similarity is scary, I don't recall a portion where she consented.
Arrogant, no. Mistaken, possibly. It's a simple definition really; sex without the consent of both parties is generally considered to be rape. It's not always violent which is why there's so much trouble in the legal system proving each case of it.
The Bible isn't a firsthand written document, it wasn't written immediately upon his death or during the course of his life. His disciples had their own accounts written, those that could write, but most of it was transcribed from the oral traditions which were the norm back then. From my understanding, of the historical perspective, the first actual book of the Bible wasn't put together until long after he and his disciples were all dead.
Mm, that can't be true as we definately know that the letters and such, including Revelations, were written by the disciples. All of Pauls letter were hand written by a scribe as he spoke, and often personally signed by him with a short hand-written note at the end. So, yes, majority if not all were written during the time of the disciples.
Perhaps you should re-read the portion where Mary "wakes up pregnant". It certainly doesn't happen the way you say, and doesn't involve sexual intercourse anyhow.. even if it did, she consented. If you think it was a reluctant consent, read the sections after when she goes to visit her cousin (?) Martha and speaks of it.
Well, we don't "know". We were informed and instructed. It may very well be true but it's not like we were there and saw it play out that way.
Can you link me to that section? No Bible handy. Most of my recollections was she woke up pregnant but didn't have any more clue what was going on then anyone else, other than what she had thought was a dream.
Well, you speak about your own opinions as though you -do- "know", and those written in the Bible are far more credible than yours, so perhaps you should apply that "we don't know" attitude to the things you say as well, instead of just things written my multiple first witnesses who lived at the time.. and if we don't "know" they lived at the time, or whatever it is you're thinking about them right now, even moreso, we don't know they -didn't-, so don't even go there =P
I find it curious that you want to discuss these things despite having little knowledge of the most reliable and well-used source regarding these things. There is no other book or manuscript available that is as reliable or as thorough.. it's odd hehe =P
No other book or manucript? Are you high?? Much in the Bible is most decidedly not true, more along the lines of myth, and the rest is history from a religious perspective.
I know it...but I don't know it know it. I can quote you chapter and verse from Ghostbusters but much of the Bible is stuff I recall from days I was much more into it than I am now. Hence the multitude of posts trying to suss it all out.
Even if that were true, which it's not, I doubt you could point me to a book more reliable or well used in regard to these things. I don't recall any other books containing anything similar to the gospels or the letters compiled in the Bible, and I doubt you can either.. which was my point.
how do you know it's not? You really believe that everything in the Bible is 100% fact?
Maybe I can, maybe I can't. I've never seen the original works from which the Greek Myhtologies were written. After all, while they are lauded as fiction nowadays they were the stories of their religions from that period in time. And we know the story of the Battle of Troy is true so who knows how much else supposed myth is real?
You're using Christian mythology as fact doesn't necessarily mean it's all true, even if some of it is spot on.
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Let's just say God and Jesus are the same being. that's still two different levels of existance: one ad a god the other as a mortal. Is it so unthinkable that in human form he was essentually human despite the godliness within?
Oh, I agree. God has many children, Jesus was hardly the only one. Zeus also impregnanted mortals...although the rape term sadly does fit what God did to Mary as well.
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Arrogant, no. Mistaken, possibly. It's a simple definition really; sex without the consent of both parties is generally considered to be rape. It's not always violent which is why there's so much trouble in the legal system proving each case of it.
The Bible isn't a firsthand written document, it wasn't written immediately upon his death or during the course of his life. His disciples had their own accounts written, those that could write, but most of it was transcribed from the oral traditions which were the norm back then. From my understanding, of the historical perspective, the first actual book of the Bible wasn't put together until long after he and his disciples were all dead.
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Perhaps you should re-read the portion where Mary "wakes up pregnant". It certainly doesn't happen the way you say, and doesn't involve sexual intercourse anyhow.. even if it did, she consented. If you think it was a reluctant consent, read the sections after when she goes to visit her cousin (?) Martha and speaks of it.
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Can you link me to that section? No Bible handy. Most of my recollections was she woke up pregnant but didn't have any more clue what was going on then anyone else, other than what she had thought was a dream.
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This will link you to a reference in an online Bible:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%201:26-56;&version=31;
I find it curious that you want to discuss these things despite having little knowledge of the most reliable and well-used source regarding these things. There is no other book or manuscript available that is as reliable or as thorough.. it's odd hehe =P
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I know it...but I don't know it know it. I can quote you chapter and verse from Ghostbusters but much of the Bible is stuff I recall from days I was much more into it than I am now. Hence the multitude of posts trying to suss it all out.
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Maybe I can, maybe I can't. I've never seen the original works from which the Greek Myhtologies were written. After all, while they are lauded as fiction nowadays they were the stories of their religions from that period in time. And we know the story of the Battle of Troy is true so who knows how much else supposed myth is real?
You're using Christian mythology as fact doesn't necessarily mean it's all true, even if some of it is spot on.
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