The Jamey Dodger Society

[ninedaysaqueen]

For prevention of cruelty to reprobates.

Current Members
ninedaysaqueen
smallsotong
inkasrain
an_english_girl
dannybailey
filkferengi
mikkaybear
agh_4
frosted_feather

*rings gong*

I call to order the first meeting of the Jamey Dodger Society, a group for those who have read a "Thick as Thieves" arc or want to become as spoiled as Varuca Salt.

Comments

Re: Kamet’s journey

[smallsotong]

On Kamet: There’s the layer of abuse-victim that you talk about, but there’s also another layer of Empire and Power that is mixed in with it. Kamet (like Nahuseresh) does really believe that the empire is a great and good force in the world (it opens trade! it civilises the world! - the things that empires from ancient to modern have always believed of themselves).

The empire and its class hierarchy of people create an order to the world, and Kamet is comfortable and knows his place in it. He represents a juxtaposition of grand political power with little personal autonomy, which I think is not that uncommon for high ranking slaves/eunuchs in various ancient empires (for a while I was wondering if Kamet was a eunuch, but he has a beard, so…). He looks down on the Attolian palace servants, who are (personally) freer than him but have much less knowledge and influence on the grand scale of things. Kamet doesn’t only have to overcome his victimhood, he has to separate himself from empire-think and value his personal autonomy over his political power in the empire. Gen took the political power part out of the equation by faking Nahuseresh’s death so that Kamet would leave Medea, but when Kamet encounters Melheret in Attolia, he has both options laid back out before him again - and this time he chooses personal freedom.

Personally, I think this may be why it took a while for me to warm to Kamet. I have a lot of strong personal feelings about colonial/post-colonial imperialist-think, and Kamet definitely pushed some of those buttons at the beginning.

RE: Re: Kamet’s journey

[ninedaysaqueen]

Ow, that's a really interesting observation! He does honestly think that way. I felt that was in part a symptom of brainwashing and sympathy for one's captors. Maybe, that's why I sympathized with him more immediately. What he describes as "training" sounded a lot like brainwashing to me...

He rationalizes imperialsm/colonism, because he wants to weild the power of the empire as the emporer's slave and doesn't vaule his own personal freedom or the freedom of others. A lot of his ways of thinking were quite shocking and concerning to me, and seeing Costis slowly convince him that nothing is worth giving up your own autonomy was very satisfing. It's such an odd constract of little personal power with such massive political weight.

His tendency to look down on others was also concerning and odd. I remember thinking you're a slave, why do you think you're so much better, while at the same time laughing because his observations were often hilarious. Of course, that's another symptom of empire think, and I also saw his inflated sense of self importance as a survival tactic and rationalization of his slavery as being an okay thing. I'm sure someone in that situation would want to believe he has more power than he actually does.

At the end of the book, it was really great to see him describe Medea as the empire that enslaved him and to have the choice to return but reject it in favor for a free but uncertain future. It was also satisfing to see him finally realize Attolians can read! Maybe, that's why I was laughing so much, because he was so wrong about so much. His retrospective observations were far more generous, which lead me to believe he was going to undergo some major character development and also made me more patient with him and just enjoy his humor.

Re: Kamet’s journey

[smallsotong]

I didn't quite see it as brainwashing, unless living most of your life in a society and internalising its structure and values is considered brainwashing. For example, I'm sure Nahuseresh genuinely believed that he cared about Kamet and that he treated his slave well. And he probably actually did, within the context of Medean hierarchical society (there are so many examples of less fortunate slaves...). Slavery was the norm throughout much of human history, especially in empires that took over other peoples, and I'm sure part of the 'obvious truths of life' that those societies held without questioning, is that some humans were worth less than others. Eddis and Attolia (and maybe Sounis? though it's less explicit) are outliers in that regard...

I think that's why I loved the crossing of the Taymets so much - it definitely challenged Kamet's empire-think by showing him a different way of doing things. The mountains weren't impassable - they just weren't passable by the empire's armies, free people lived their lives and even helped each other out on the crossing (firewood in caves, etc).

And like I said, Kamet definitely grew on me. He's introspective and capable of observing and then admitting to himself when his own perceptions were wrong. He grows with each experience (whereas I think that Nahuseresh did not learn from his experiences). He represents the best we can hope to do in our lives - learning from new experiences and information, reflecting, growing, overcoming the limits that are placed on us by our past :)

(Upon more reflection, I think I was also disappointed with Kamet initially because I expected more of him based on the insightfulness he showed in QoA - the Kamet that I expected wasn't there at the start of TaT)