We all remember the joy we had when Lynn told us that "Nighrunners" would get a film adaptation and I'm sure I'm not the only one mightily disappointed when it ended up not happening
( Read more... )
Reasons what's so good about Nightrunner and why it should be adapted:
- it is a very interesting, diverse and complex setting, giving room for much creativity when it comes to adapting it.
- the story set in this setting begins as a very solid standard fantasy fare. Let's face it, the premise is not the most original. However, this might proove a low-risk factor; weird premises and unfamiliar stories are eyed with way more scepticism than paths well-walked.
- later plots however, after one is engrossed in this world? Offer even more room for creativity, both visual and how to adapt the story to screen.
- anyways, what's most interesting are a) how the premises are done and b) even more: the characters. The premises are done with twists and turns. People have to figure out by themselves which roles they will play (and boy do they NOT like it); the hint that there always were quartets like the last one gives countless opportunities to twist this whole prophecy thing and turn it on its head (you were not born for just this job, your life was not fucked up only for this - but your life formed your the way that you fit the job description; there had always been others before because there was no way of telling if or whether this would happen). The characters are multidimensional, facetted, complex and in a costant process of learning, growing, developing, changing. Alec is the prime example here, but look at how Seregil changes, look at Thero, look at Micum, Kari and Beka. This makes for one hell of an awesome narrative and poses a nice challenge to every actor.
- Representation: Most obviously, the queer representation. We need way more media with queer characters and a queer narrative that's just that - a character and a narrative that's among other things queer, instead of making the queerness the main defining factor and plot point. I mean - are straight characters defined by their straightness? Nope, probably because it's what people consider "default" -__- - Alec muses a bit about his attraction to Seregil, but at the same time he has other things in mind. Seregil is canonically and very openly queer. And lo and behold, if you had him straight and Alec a girl none of his behaviour or his thought patterns regarding Alec would change (the "he's Dalnan, he wouldn't" aside). See, orientation is a part of our identity. But it's not our defining trait. Making it so is degrading and insulting as hell and just causes people to exclaim: "But you act so... ... so normal, I never would have guessed you're gay!" Books like Nightrunners and adaptations of these can change that bit by bit. Not to mention that maybe, just maybe one or two kids didn't kill themselves because these books helped them realize they're no freaks. Women: We've got a matriarchal monarchy. The army consists 50% of women. The ladies work in any profession. There is no "I'm not like other girls" here. Being a warrior doesn't make you unfeminine. Being a homemaker doesn't make you weak. Sleeping around doesn't make you a slut. (Ylinestra is a bad person, but certainly not for being promiscous in itself.) The possibilities for interesting women are endless. (on that matter, Tamír. Tamír. TAMÍR.) These books pass both the Bechdel-test and the Mako-Mori-Test with flying colours. PoC and ethnic diversity: while one CAN interpret the Aurenfaie as white, that doesn't mean one has to. Even then they have a very distinctive look that makes them easily recognizable. Note also how Alec very often remarks when people have very fair skin or are rather freckled (which occurs mostly to very pale people), indicating he's seen at least some non-white folks even before going to Skala. Traders perhaps. In the same vein he does NOT comment on the skin of Plenimarans even though they probably are very much looking like southern Europeans? This world offers an awesome chance for a diverse representation, just another thing we have way too little around here.
So... fantasy fans who are not shocked by queer main characters (which would include a large chunk of the GoT fandom). Queer demographic. Feminists. PoC; (in places other than America also ethnic minorities that in America qualify as white). And Nightrunner fans (who, admittedly will move in once or more of these groups anyways) ... looks like a not too small potential audience out there, just from the premise alone.
Also interesting might be the factor of "history of slavery, the role of the western world and how we deal with our own role and how we stupidly try to partially justify it in a officially-post-slavery era" that comes up in the later books (the "post-slavery" esp. in the last book if I understand the amazon sneak right)
Much stuff to play with and use and look into. Much stuff to be creative and create something awesome.
I also think - one thing I missed in the books is a look at Plenimar. Maybe we'll get this in the last book, who knows... but I'd love to see more of Plenimaran culture and everyday politics and everyday lives woven in. I think if one tweaks the narrative carefully - not only discussing treaties but showing how they are made and signed... or what the Overlord thinks of Mardus... or how he waits for a cure for his son... such glimpes were missing in the books and I can't think of a way they would have gotten in. Visual media has different opportunities in that regard. It can emphazise one aspect without cutting corners on others... so, how about putting some extra focus on racism?
[before you ask, this was ... 15 minutes writing. and 30 minutes cleaning up typos.]
I fear particularly the POC question is going to be difficult. They're white on the covers of the books and the actors LF suggests are white, too. So at least Seregil and Alec are supposed to be white for all we know. --- I'd (obviously?) prefer it if they weren't. But that's a different story.
And with women we'd need to make sure that the parts that do mention them are made very clear. Before they reach Rhíminee we basically learn that we're dealing with a matriarchal monarchy (and that Alec seems rather shocked by the idea that a woman could take more than one lover, yes, Alec just very clearly believes in monogamy as soon as you're in a relationship, it's just not as clear that he considers that the standards for everyone at the time), but only in Rhíminee do we actually get a clearer view. And that'd probably be half way through Luck. Which if it's split into episodes rather than sold as a whole film might mean we get the first episode or two without any important female characters.
And with the potential Queer viewers we'll have to wait until post April first. If one or both of them die permanently in Shards ---
Lynn PROMISED she'd not go G.R.R. Martin. Also she said she is done. For now. Maybe we'll get another book in a few years... so... if she kills them I'll fly over to Maine and annoy her until she revives them. ... but I'm hopeful I don't need to. :)
And yes, maaaybe a video would be a good idea, but due to my annoying voice and my tendency to a slight stutter when nervous... I'll better leave the talk to someone else and keep on collecting arguments and stringing them together coherently.
... also my spoken english is TERRIBLE. JUST TERRIBLE. Who even cares.
(seriously, after all that Hair talk I drew a connection between Cecil and Seregil...)
Well I'll just wait till I've read Shards. :P (I wouldn't tell the readers if I intended to kill anyone either. It's rather spoilery. .P)
Aww. Well a vid would make it easier to get the message spread to people who don't want to read. But yeah, I can relate. I tend to stutter when I'm nervous, too. :(
Maybe someone else will be willing to do it. - Find the arguments. And consider how to present them. A lot of people like pictures. And nice fonts. And short, snazzy messages. And humour.
... check out "Welcome to Nightvale", a podcast (google it, you find it). It's adorable. And you'll understand around the 3rd or 4th episode... :)
Hmm... ... so... colleecting arguments... writing... working on presentation... finding someone who has a less squeaky voice... ... ... urrrgh, wasn't I supposed to finish my thesis or something? *grins* (However, I found that writing it down already helps stringing the arguments... and as we see, can lead to a rather good discourse... but well, a discourse would work just as well in a face-to-face. ... I really should get a meet up or something started.
Well perhaps you might want to finish the thesis *before* you try to work on this project again? ;) Let it stew a bit. It might help you come up with more arguments.
I realize this thread is a few days old, but I seem to recall several passages saying that the Aurenfaie have brown hair, gray eyes, and olive skin. The covers certainly did interpret Seregil as white, but I suspect the intention was closer to a Middle Eastern aesthetic. Say, the Persia to Skala's Greece.
I'm not sure about the olive skin. (also... nope, they don't all have grey eyes. Nyal? :) )
I remember Eirual being described as olive-skinned and Seregil notes that this is an "exotic" look to him, together with her black curls. If he was olive skinned himself, that would not work... then again, Zengati are neighbours to the Western clans and there ARE ya'shel with them... (the clan dynamics were noted as being... "complex".) So... maybe the skin tones differ between Aurenfaie themselves, depending on where they live? (and well, Lynn definitely imagines Seregil as white too. :/ Too bad, honestly but then again, this never stopped fans and 'faie definitely get PoC treatment in some regards.) ... but seriously, setting someone up as southerner and then have him milky white makes no sense whatsoever.
I definitely remember that 'faie tan quickly, considering the description of their reception in Gedre. So... I think she was more going for southern European. Italian, Greek. Can lean into "olive skin" territory, for Americans it qualifies as Latin, Europeans perceive it as white. ?
Because if you can get people to watch a nice two-five minutes vid on the topic they're more likely to pay attention than they will if you write them a long text.
- it is a very interesting, diverse and complex setting, giving room for much creativity when it comes to adapting it.
- the story set in this setting begins as a very solid standard fantasy fare. Let's face it, the premise is not the most original. However, this might proove a low-risk factor; weird premises and unfamiliar stories are eyed with way more scepticism than paths well-walked.
- later plots however, after one is engrossed in this world? Offer even more room for creativity, both visual and how to adapt the story to screen.
- anyways, what's most interesting are a) how the premises are done and b) even more: the characters.
The premises are done with twists and turns. People have to figure out by themselves which roles they will play (and boy do they NOT like it); the hint that there always were quartets like the last one gives countless opportunities to twist this whole prophecy thing and turn it on its head (you were not born for just this job, your life was not fucked up only for this - but your life formed your the way that you fit the job description; there had always been others before because there was no way of telling if or whether this would happen).
The characters are multidimensional, facetted, complex and in a costant process of learning, growing, developing, changing. Alec is the prime example here, but look at how Seregil changes, look at Thero, look at Micum, Kari and Beka. This makes for one hell of an awesome narrative and poses a nice challenge to every actor.
Reply
- Representation:
Most obviously, the queer representation. We need way more media with queer characters and a queer narrative that's just that - a character and a narrative that's among other things queer, instead of making the queerness the main defining factor and plot point. I mean - are straight characters defined by their straightness? Nope, probably because it's what people consider "default" -__- - Alec muses a bit about his attraction to Seregil, but at the same time he has other things in mind. Seregil is canonically and very openly queer. And lo and behold, if you had him straight and Alec a girl none of his behaviour or his thought patterns regarding Alec would change (the "he's Dalnan, he wouldn't" aside). See, orientation is a part of our identity. But it's not our defining trait. Making it so is degrading and insulting as hell and just causes people to exclaim: "But you act so... ... so normal, I never would have guessed you're gay!"
Books like Nightrunners and adaptations of these can change that bit by bit. Not to mention that maybe, just maybe one or two kids didn't kill themselves because these books helped them realize they're no freaks.
Women: We've got a matriarchal monarchy. The army consists 50% of women. The ladies work in any profession. There is no "I'm not like other girls" here. Being a warrior doesn't make you unfeminine. Being a homemaker doesn't make you weak. Sleeping around doesn't make you a slut. (Ylinestra is a bad person, but certainly not for being promiscous in itself.) The possibilities for interesting women are endless. (on that matter, Tamír. Tamír. TAMÍR.) These books pass both the Bechdel-test and the Mako-Mori-Test with flying colours.
PoC and ethnic diversity: while one CAN interpret the Aurenfaie as white, that doesn't mean one has to. Even then they have a very distinctive look that makes them easily recognizable. Note also how Alec very often remarks when people have very fair skin or are rather freckled (which occurs mostly to very pale people), indicating he's seen at least some non-white folks even before going to Skala. Traders perhaps. In the same vein he does NOT comment on the skin of Plenimarans even though they probably are very much looking like southern Europeans? This world offers an awesome chance for a diverse representation, just another thing we have way too little around here.
So... fantasy fans who are not shocked by queer main characters (which would include a large chunk of the GoT fandom). Queer demographic. Feminists. PoC; (in places other than America also ethnic minorities that in America qualify as white). And Nightrunner fans (who, admittedly will move in once or more of these groups anyways) ... looks like a not too small potential audience out there, just from the premise alone.
Also interesting might be the factor of "history of slavery, the role of the western world and how we deal with our own role and how we stupidly try to partially justify it in a officially-post-slavery era" that comes up in the later books (the "post-slavery" esp. in the last book if I understand the amazon sneak right)
Much stuff to play with and use and look into. Much stuff to be creative and create something awesome.
I also think - one thing I missed in the books is a look at Plenimar. Maybe we'll get this in the last book, who knows... but I'd love to see more of Plenimaran culture and everyday politics and everyday lives woven in. I think if one tweaks the narrative carefully - not only discussing treaties but showing how they are made and signed... or what the Overlord thinks of Mardus... or how he waits for a cure for his son... such glimpes were missing in the books and I can't think of a way they would have gotten in. Visual media has different opportunities in that regard. It can emphazise one aspect without cutting corners on others... so, how about putting some extra focus on racism?
[before you ask, this was ... 15 minutes writing. and 30 minutes cleaning up typos.]
Reply
And with women we'd need to make sure that the parts that do mention them are made very clear. Before they reach Rhíminee we basically learn that we're dealing with a matriarchal monarchy (and that Alec seems rather shocked by the idea that a woman could take more than one lover, yes, Alec just very clearly believes in monogamy as soon as you're in a relationship, it's just not as clear that he considers that the standards for everyone at the time), but only in Rhíminee do we actually get a clearer view. And that'd probably be half way through Luck. Which if it's split into episodes rather than sold as a whole film might mean we get the first episode or two without any important female characters.
And with the potential Queer viewers we'll have to wait until post April first. If one or both of them die permanently in Shards ---
Reply
And yes, maaaybe a video would be a good idea, but due to my annoying voice and my tendency to a slight stutter when nervous... I'll better leave the talk to someone else and keep on collecting arguments and stringing them together coherently.
... also my spoken english is TERRIBLE. JUST TERRIBLE. Who even cares.
(seriously, after all that Hair talk I drew a connection between Cecil and Seregil...)
Reply
Aww. Well a vid would make it easier to get the message spread to people who don't want to read.
But yeah, I can relate. I tend to stutter when I'm nervous, too. :(
Maybe someone else will be willing to do it. - Find the arguments. And consider how to present them. A lot of people like pictures. And nice fonts. And short, snazzy messages. And humour.
Cecil? *confused*
Reply
Hmm... ... so... colleecting arguments... writing... working on presentation... finding someone who has a less squeaky voice... ... ... urrrgh, wasn't I supposed to finish my thesis or something? *grins*
(However, I found that writing it down already helps stringing the arguments... and as we see, can lead to a rather good discourse... but well, a discourse would work just as well in a face-to-face. ... I really should get a meet up or something started.
Reply
Well perhaps you might want to finish the thesis *before* you try to work on this project again? ;) Let it stew a bit. It might help you come up with more arguments.
It certainly does. :)
Reply
Reply
I remember Eirual being described as olive-skinned and Seregil notes that this is an "exotic" look to him, together with her black curls. If he was olive skinned himself, that would not work... then again, Zengati are neighbours to the Western clans and there ARE ya'shel with them... (the clan dynamics were noted as being... "complex".)
So... maybe the skin tones differ between Aurenfaie themselves, depending on where they live?
(and well, Lynn definitely imagines Seregil as white too. :/ Too bad, honestly but then again, this never stopped fans and 'faie definitely get PoC treatment in some regards.)
... but seriously, setting someone up as southerner and then have him milky white makes no sense whatsoever.
Reply
Reply
I definitely remember that 'faie tan quickly, considering the description of their reception in Gedre. So... I think she was more going for southern European. Italian, Greek. Can lean into "olive skin" territory, for Americans it qualifies as Latin, Europeans perceive it as white. ?
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDYJTr3Lcw8&list=UUhbbgPf22oLzNf0s4WAV9NA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct6Xf3-DL_c
Because if you can get people to watch a nice two-five minutes vid on the topic they're more likely to pay attention than they will if you write them a long text.
Reply
Leave a comment