// Rather funny how Soviet animation, which was made for reasons as far from "profitable business" as you can get, is now a "profitable business" for people who had nothing to do with the original organization. //
yes, it is an amazing historical paradox ;))
I totally agree that those people show themselves in unfavourable light. It is too clearly they have a strong mercenary interest, but have no idea about the most favourable conditions for audience (and animation at all).
That's way I paid my attention to the problem situation turn out in Russian animation industry despite the fact that professionally I'm not connected with one. I believe that today Russian animation industry is deformed in own morphological structure (genres, styles, artistic manners, available of resours/moneys, links between production and audience etc) because historical and social reasons.
For the sake to improve the situation we need in the joint efforts by animators, amateurs, viewers; need in brain storm for the concept work etc. And your efforts (effort by other supporters also) in translating and promotion of Soviet and Russian animated films abroad I see as a part of it.
One thing that could help... how are you at translating things from English to Russian? I'm much better at Russian to English than the opposite, so I'd really like it if you could translate into Russian the following paragraph from my entry; I think maybe this idea could be part of the "brain storm" on the Russian side:
I'd like to be able to show these films to others without getting harassed... and after all, the old model of television over antenna was that the channels were free to watch, and you "paid" by watching advertisements. I don't see why such a system couldn't be replicated with internet video... content creators allow anyone to share their content, while they get to choose the ad content that plays before it. In this way, they get money, and they get their audience to do the distribution for them, make translations into other languages, and so on. Basically, they don't have to do anything except rake in the cash, so this proposal would seem to be an attractive one for them. Otherwise this cat and mouse game will never end... as for "illegal video sharers", I think a lot of us would agree to proactively tell the rightsholders about any films that we upload to Youtube, and let them get the ad revenue from them, if it were then guaranteed that they wouldn't be taken down.
I'm still a little hopeful that maybe there's a way to keep everyone happy, or at least not too miserable. To reconcile the wishes of those who care only about the money with those who care only about the culture, so that the two sides are allies or at least not active enemies.
Something I've noticed is that a lot of these "illegal video sharers" in Russia are the very directors of the films themselves, who perhaps more than anyone are concerned with finding an audience for their films, yet the current inefficient allowed distribution system blocks them from doing that ( example).
My translation of this piece in not ideal on stylistic view, so I could be correct /edit it if you do some remarks:
Я хотел бы, чтобы у меня была возможность показывать эти мультфильмы другим людям, не подвергаясь преследованиям… В конце концов, существовала старая модель телевещания, когда сигнал транслировался на антенну и вы могли свободно смотреть каналы, «оплачивая» их только тем, что вместе с передачами просматривали рекламу. Почему бы эту модель не воспроизвести на канале интернет-видео? Производители «контента» могли бы позволить любому желающему делиться с аудиторией этим «контентом», получая при этом доход от рекламы, которую можно было бы показывать в самом начале. Таким образом, они бы зарабатывали деньги и давали бы возможность аудитории заниматься дистрибьюцией, переводом субтитров на другие языки и тому подобное. По большому счёту, единственное, что от них потребовалось бы - это загребать деньги лопатой, - такое предложение, по-моему, не может не заинтересовать их. В противном случае, эти игры в кошки-мышки будут продолжаться до бесконечности… Что касается «незаконного размещения видео» большинство из нас, я думаю, согласилось бы регулярно сообщать правообладателям о фильмах, загружаемых на YouTube, тем самым предоставив им возможность получать свою долю отчислений от рекламы, при условии, конечно, если они гарантируют, что не будут требовать отзыва своих фильмов.
Perhaps, I'll do posting about this YouTube problem in my LJ and/or elsewhere. In turn, can I ask you do text/ post regarding the statistics on the users' shows of animation films in your YouTube account channel? For example, 10 top films - number of users. A brief review, not more. I believe this review could be attract more a public attention to the problem.
That seems alright to me. One little correction: "В конце концов, существовала старая..." - I think that whole sentence can be present tense, because the model may be old (the oldest of them all) but it still exists. There are a lot of people who watch over-the-air TV channels for free instead of paying for cable or satellite, either through analogue signals (with the classic "rabbit ears" antennae) or the new over-the-air digital signals.
Something interesting that this seems to show is that most of the people watching Russian animation are not kids. In most cases, people of age 45-54 are the biggest demographic. One of the only exceptions is the film "The Dog Door", which skews heavily to the female 13-17 demographic (to be honest, I'm not entirely sure why). Most views come from the U.S., although regional popularity is highest in Russia followed by Estonia.
Concerning the proposal: I just looked around and, as I suspected, Youtube already provides all the tools necessary to implement it, should Funtik Entertainment or anyone else want to. Here it is, explained in English, and in Russian. Funtik or Soyuzmultfilm is probably aware of this system, because some films are now automatically rejected if I try to upload them. So this probably means that they submitted some video files to Youtube's Content ID, as described in the FAQ, and told Youtube to block any uploaded content that matches them.
Perhaps they're unaware that they can monetize these films instead of removing them? They'll get at least some money instead of none at all, and they won't even need to work for it. They will also get free data about where the audience comes from, like those graphs that I posted above.
By deleting them, they're just throwing away an audience; they're certainly not providing any translations of their own, so those people who watched it before will just not watch any Russian animation. If they decided to delete them because they're negotiating some sort of rights with a Russian company, it's also possible to just block them in one region of the world, such as Russia. So they could block the subtitled films in Russia while allowing them to be viewed in other countries, where they don't have any distribution anyway.
To make it simple, here's a kind of post-mortem of the most-viewed subtitled films (for multi-part films, I listed the one with the most views):
225,111 Winnie-the-Pooh 150,411 Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson 137,334 Shaybu! Shaybu! 102,613 The Tree and the Cat 76,348 Cheburashka 72,789 Plasticine Crow 72,716 The Cow 68,055 The Koloboks Investigate 62,842 Commercial by Yuriy Norshteyn 55,820 Norshteyn's "Good Night, Children" sequence 54,794 The Dog Door 52,588 Time Out 46,022 The Cat Who Walked by Herself 29,311 Frank and Wendy 26,298 Gena the Crocodile 26,192 Spring Melodies 22,375 Laziness 19,344 The Monster 19,296 Night on Bald Mountain 14,767 Welcome 13,175 The Hobbit 13,075 Thumbelina 12,233 Ryaba 12,202 Captain Pronin in America 11,669 Fox and Hare 11,610 "The Ugly Duckling" Trailer 11,508 Rubik's Cube 10,524 Kolobok 10,429 Forest Tales 9,048 If You Don't Like-Don't Listen 8,981 About Crayfish 8,925 The Lodgers of an Old House 8,735 Captain Pronin 6,806 The Kingdom of Cats 6,588 The Tale of the Blue Cloak 6,372 The Lost Letter 6,173 Aleksandr Petrov, the making of "Mermaid", etc. 6,169 Shareholders 6,134 Elephant and Pug 5,905 The Pilot Brothers Sometimes Go Hunting 5,897 A Long Time Ago 5,860 Mumu 5,549 The Bread's Light 5,282 The Returned Sun 5,058 Fatum 4,942 When the Sand Will Rise 4,787 The Pilot Brothers Film a Clip for MTV 4,667 Aleksandr Petrov, the making of "My Love" 4,663 The Pilot Brothers Make Spaghetti for Breakfast 4,661 The Little Tiger on the Sunflower 4,337 Cowboys in the City 3,989 Hunting Season 3,793 Polkan and Shavka 3,237 The Stolen Sun 3,210 Ready or Not, Here I Come 2,669 The Last Battle 2,499 The Pilot Brothers Suddenly Decided to Go Fishing 1,999 There Lived a Tree 1,889 How Brave Ivan Saved the Tsar's Daughter 1,726 "Gofmaniada" news report 2010-08-27 1,165 Toell the Great (Estonian) 1,595 I Can Hear You
Very interesting, looks like Kievnauchfilm (from Ukraine) is using Youtube as a distribution channel by uploading their films there: http://www.youtube.com/user/channelAIR
Well, I think Kievnauchfilm is Ukranimafilm now. The last I heard of them (this was over a year ago, though), they were victims of the economic crisis and were an empty shell, existing in name and not much else.
This Youtube channel belongs to something called "Agency of Internet Rights", and I think they're doing a pretty good job at making all of these films that they own the rights to available to watch legally. According to their official website, they have an impressive catalogue. But whoever maintains their Youtube channel seems to be friendly enough, so I sent them a message to ask if they were interested in allowing other Youtube users to translate their films on their own channels, since they can then get the profits from any ad money by using Youtube's ContentID system.
yes, it is an amazing historical paradox ;))
I totally agree that those people show themselves in unfavourable light. It is too clearly they have a strong mercenary interest, but have no idea about the most favourable conditions for audience (and animation at all).
That's way I paid my attention to the problem situation turn out in Russian animation industry despite the fact that professionally I'm not connected with one. I believe that today Russian animation industry is deformed in own morphological structure (genres, styles, artistic manners, available of resours/moneys, links between production and audience etc) because historical and social reasons.
For the sake to improve the situation we need in the joint efforts by animators, amateurs, viewers; need in brain storm for the concept work etc. And your efforts (effort by other supporters also) in translating and promotion of Soviet and Russian animated films abroad I see as a part of it.
Reply
I'd like to be able to show these films to others without getting harassed... and after all, the old model of television over antenna was that the channels were free to watch, and you "paid" by watching advertisements. I don't see why such a system couldn't be replicated with internet video... content creators allow anyone to share their content, while they get to choose the ad content that plays before it. In this way, they get money, and they get their audience to do the distribution for them, make translations into other languages, and so on. Basically, they don't have to do anything except rake in the cash, so this proposal would seem to be an attractive one for them. Otherwise this cat and mouse game will never end... as for "illegal video sharers", I think a lot of us would agree to proactively tell the rightsholders about any films that we upload to Youtube, and let them get the ad revenue from them, if it were then guaranteed that they wouldn't be taken down.
I'm still a little hopeful that maybe there's a way to keep everyone happy, or at least not too miserable. To reconcile the wishes of those who care only about the money with those who care only about the culture, so that the two sides are allies or at least not active enemies.
Something I've noticed is that a lot of these "illegal video sharers" in Russia are the very directors of the films themselves, who perhaps more than anyone are concerned with finding an audience for their films, yet the current inefficient allowed distribution system blocks them from doing that ( example).
Reply
Я хотел бы, чтобы у меня была возможность показывать эти мультфильмы другим людям, не подвергаясь преследованиям… В конце концов, существовала старая модель телевещания, когда сигнал транслировался на антенну и вы могли свободно смотреть каналы, «оплачивая» их только тем, что вместе с передачами просматривали рекламу. Почему бы эту модель не воспроизвести на канале интернет-видео? Производители «контента» могли бы позволить любому желающему делиться с аудиторией этим «контентом», получая при этом доход от рекламы, которую можно было бы показывать в самом начале. Таким образом, они бы зарабатывали деньги и давали бы возможность аудитории заниматься дистрибьюцией, переводом субтитров на другие языки и тому подобное. По большому счёту, единственное, что от них потребовалось бы - это загребать деньги лопатой, - такое предложение, по-моему, не может не заинтересовать их. В противном случае, эти игры в кошки-мышки будут продолжаться до бесконечности… Что касается «незаконного размещения видео» большинство из нас, я думаю, согласилось бы регулярно сообщать правообладателям о фильмах, загружаемых на YouTube, тем самым предоставив им возможность получать свою долю отчислений от рекламы, при условии, конечно, если они гарантируют, что не будут требовать отзыва своих фильмов.
Perhaps, I'll do posting about this YouTube problem in my LJ and/or elsewhere.
In turn, can I ask you do text/ post regarding the statistics on the users' shows of animation films in your YouTube account channel? For example, 10 top films - number of users. A brief review, not more. I believe this review could be attract more a public attention to the problem.
Reply
Concerning statistics, sure. I took some screenshots for Mr. Bubnov back in August 2009:
http://a.imagehost.org/view/0833/niffiwanviews
and again in October 2010:
http://i.imgur.com/hEOTQ.gif
And just for good measure, here are a lot of statistics from today:
http://imgur.com/a/W6lsO#pXj6F
Something interesting that this seems to show is that most of the people watching Russian animation are not kids. In most cases, people of age 45-54 are the biggest demographic. One of the only exceptions is the film "The Dog Door", which skews heavily to the female 13-17 demographic (to be honest, I'm not entirely sure why). Most views come from the U.S., although regional popularity is highest in Russia followed by Estonia.
Concerning the proposal: I just looked around and, as I suspected, Youtube already provides all the tools necessary to implement it, should Funtik Entertainment or anyone else want to. Here it is, explained in English, and in Russian. Funtik or Soyuzmultfilm is probably aware of this system, because some films are now automatically rejected if I try to upload them. So this probably means that they submitted some video files to Youtube's Content ID, as described in the FAQ, and told Youtube to block any uploaded content that matches them.
Perhaps they're unaware that they can monetize these films instead of removing them? They'll get at least some money instead of none at all, and they won't even need to work for it. They will also get free data about where the audience comes from, like those graphs that I posted above.
By deleting them, they're just throwing away an audience; they're certainly not providing any translations of their own, so those people who watched it before will just not watch any Russian animation. If they decided to delete them because they're negotiating some sort of rights with a Russian company, it's also possible to just block them in one region of the world, such as Russia. So they could block the subtitled films in Russia while allowing them to be viewed in other countries, where they don't have any distribution anyway.
Reply
225,111 Winnie-the-Pooh
150,411 Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson
137,334 Shaybu! Shaybu!
102,613 The Tree and the Cat
76,348 Cheburashka
72,789 Plasticine Crow
72,716 The Cow
68,055 The Koloboks Investigate
62,842 Commercial by Yuriy Norshteyn
55,820 Norshteyn's "Good Night, Children" sequence
54,794 The Dog Door
52,588 Time Out
46,022 The Cat Who Walked by Herself
29,311 Frank and Wendy
26,298 Gena the Crocodile
26,192 Spring Melodies
22,375 Laziness
19,344 The Monster
19,296 Night on Bald Mountain
14,767 Welcome
13,175 The Hobbit
13,075 Thumbelina
12,233 Ryaba
12,202 Captain Pronin in America
11,669 Fox and Hare
11,610 "The Ugly Duckling" Trailer
11,508 Rubik's Cube
10,524 Kolobok
10,429 Forest Tales
9,048 If You Don't Like-Don't Listen
8,981 About Crayfish
8,925 The Lodgers of an Old House
8,735 Captain Pronin
6,806 The Kingdom of Cats
6,588 The Tale of the Blue Cloak
6,372 The Lost Letter
6,173 Aleksandr Petrov, the making of "Mermaid", etc.
6,169 Shareholders
6,134 Elephant and Pug
5,905 The Pilot Brothers Sometimes Go Hunting
5,897 A Long Time Ago
5,860 Mumu
5,549 The Bread's Light
5,282 The Returned Sun
5,058 Fatum
4,942 When the Sand Will Rise
4,787 The Pilot Brothers Film a Clip for MTV
4,667 Aleksandr Petrov, the making of "My Love"
4,663 The Pilot Brothers Make Spaghetti for Breakfast
4,661 The Little Tiger on the Sunflower
4,337 Cowboys in the City
3,989 Hunting Season
3,793 Polkan and Shavka
3,237 The Stolen Sun
3,210 Ready or Not, Here I Come
2,669 The Last Battle
2,499 The Pilot Brothers Suddenly Decided to Go Fishing
1,999 There Lived a Tree
1,889 How Brave Ivan Saved the Tsar's Daughter
1,726 "Gofmaniada" news report 2010-08-27
1,165 Toell the Great (Estonian)
1,595 I Can Hear You
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/user/channelAIR
Reply
But I'm not sure whether does Kievnauchfilm studio exist as the juridical subject yet?
Reply
This Youtube channel belongs to something called "Agency of Internet Rights", and I think they're doing a pretty good job at making all of these films that they own the rights to available to watch legally. According to their official website, they have an impressive catalogue. But whoever maintains their Youtube channel seems to be friendly enough, so I sent them a message to ask if they were interested in allowing other Youtube users to translate their films on their own channels, since they can then get the profits from any ad money by using Youtube's ContentID system.
Reply
(I have sent for you Russian version of this post)
Reply
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