Well we really screwed this one up…

[news]

For reasons we are still trying to figure out what was supposed to be a well planned attempt to clean up a few journals that were violating LiveJournal's policies that protect minors turned into a total mess. I can only say I’m sorry, explain what we did wrong and what we are doing to correct these problems and explain what we were trying to do but

Comments

[spare_change]

Another issue we needed to deal with was journals that used a thin veneer of fictional or academic interest in events and storylines that include child rape, pedophilia, and similar themes in order to actually promote these activities. While there are stories, essays, and discussions that include discussion of these issues in an effort to understand and prevent them, others use a pretext to promote these activities. It’s often very hard to tell the difference. As such, we have suspended reported journals that do not clearly and substantially object to these activities while at the same time portraying them.

Do you realize that this is still in violation of your ToS and of all of LJ's policies up until now?

Do you realize that Nabokov's Lolita wouldn't fit under these guidelines?

Do you fully understand that "interest" does not equal condoning an issue?

Do you realize that you have more than 22,000 members who aren't going to find this response adequate? I think this best sums up my feelings on the situation.

Until I see fandom LJs restored, I'm not going to trust what you tell us. None of this should have happened in the first place.

[bentley]

You are my hero of the week, seriously.

[spare_change]

I was really hoping that someone would follow that link. :D

[joelie]

And WORD! *throws streamers*

[ami_neko]

Thank you for a much needed laugh.

[barakb25]

OK. Yes these are hard issues. That does not mean we can just ignore them.

[hoshi3]

Even though people who have those hot words in their interests, yet never say anything in relation to said interest, but have it there and write fictional stories for fandom purposes only?

You would be surprised at the number of people who write those types of /fictional/ stories, yet /do not support/ those actions in reality.

[spare_change]

But ... it does mean that. Because you are now claiming to be able to read people's minds based on what they list as interests and the kind of fiction they write and discuss. Do you realize how offensive that is?

I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt that you have NO IDEA the kind of murky legal and ethical territory you are wading into. But it is a huge mistake to say that a fiction community that contains distasteful content must depict it in a Back to School Special kind of way or else it condones what it portrays.

Literature is supposed to reflect the world. And the world is often an ugly place. Exploring ugliness doesn't mean that you condone it. It just acknowledges that it exists. Maybe you don't realize, for example, that a lot of the fiction that portrays abusive situations is written by VICTIMS of abuse, as a form of therapy.

What if I started a Bible community and listed as interests things like incest, cannibalism, baby-killing, etc.? All of those things are in the Bible. Does that mean we're going to ban religious communities now?

Please see these posts by a woman who has a Ph.D. in literature and who collected countless examples of important literary works that contain unsavory themes: the post collecting the examples and the the summarized list, for a fuller discussion of these issues.

---

Anyway, I think we also need to address where Six Apart/Live Journal took some missteps from a legal and law enforcement perspective. The fact that even Perverted Justice deplored your actions should mean something.

Lastly, I hope you realize that we in fandom are quite serious about leaving this site. Contrary to popular belief, much of fandom is older, well-educated, and has a lot of disposible income which gets funneled into LJ. The last estimate I saw of LJ's anticipated financial losses was around $20,000, and that was more than 12 hours ago, before many fans yet had a chance to reply. Many of us have already started journals at other sites.

We do understand your position, even if we don't agree with how you're representing it or the actions you are choosing to take. But we won't be cowed, and if our personal and community LJs aren't restored, we *will* be leaving.

Thank you for responding to me.

[unperfectwolf]

Yes - my money doesn't need to go into a community that is being controlled by someone who thinks that you build a community from the top down. Because you don't. We form a community, and you give us a place to come and interact. But, if you try and control the community, they will rebel. And take their money with them.

You are not the thought police.

[duskpeterson]

"Literature is supposed to reflect the world. And the world is often an ugly place. Exploring ugliness doesn't mean that you condone it."

Amen.

[indie_young]

I have nothing to add except here here! and I will NOT be satisfied until six apart answers these questions.

[ingriam]

I'm just going to add my agreement, too.

[julietofarcadia]

You are my hero. My sleep-deprived brain totally couldn't even begin to put into words how I feel about this and you've done it perfectly.

[abetterday]

Then what can you do? Seriously. We are all waiting for an answer and this certainly was not an answer to spare_change's questions.

[darkenedminds]

What kind of reply is this? I was getting comfortable in this apology till I saw this.

Fandom is seriously the least of your worries as far as building a better community. Weed out the real pedos - you know, the ones who don't think Harry Potter is sooo hot and should totally hook up with Ginny, or the likes. A story or a fanart in a regard like this isn't a "thin veneer" of anything. I could take a fanfiction featuring fictional adult characters and replace the names with underage characters like Harry Potter and it'd be the same damned thing: A work of fiction.

[anatsuno]

As a friend of mine put it...

Right.

So I suppose the 600 or so journals that list infertility as an interest are saying "I like infertility!".

Oh look, here are 500 journals that say "I'm in favour of pcos!".

Not to mention 600 journals yelling "I support diabetes!".

Seriously, go read up on folksonomies, and then come back with better arguments. Hell, ask Mena Trott! I mean, you guys are supposed to be on top of that kind of stuff, and this is the best you can do? Forget me being bewildered and hurt and taking my dollars elsewhere, on top of that you're just managing to destroy all your internet credibility, and you're costing me my personal geek heroes.