Not that it matters currently, since the a la carte userpics are still not available to purchase, but I did go back through the News Posts (Which, really, you guys should go through and back-tag some of these entries. They have important information, but are nearly impossible to go through.)
Anyway, I was going through the entries, because there seems to be a definite road-block being put up toward replying to people about making Permanent Account members pay for having a feature they thought they already had.
Maybe, you're not sure why we were all led to believe that we would never have to pay for a feature on our account? Perhaps you're wondering where we'd get a silly idea like "having the maximum amount of icons" all the time?
I have here three different posts, about permanent account sales, that state right there that we'd never have to make a payment again and that we'd have the most userpics available, along with a note that it's always increasing.
This would be, as far as I'm concerned, one of those "always increasing" moments.
I've had my permanent account since 2005 and every time something has changed, it's been perked to my account based on the original agreement that I paid for. It's meant to be the best account option available. You promote it to be this special thing that we should save our money up for when it comes around every one to two years, but now other uses have more than us and that's not what we signed up for.
Even those of us with permanent accounts, don't just hang out here and not give money to the site. We pay for V-Gifts, accounts for our friends - other accounts. Heck, I got 15 notifs that my credit card associated with automatic payments was going to expire next month. That's a lot of money to spend per year with your service. I'm not the only one that has more than one account either.
I just want what I was promised. If this was any other business and I was being jerked around like this I'd talk to the manager. Then it'd come down to the old rule of, "The customer is always right."
I guess here on the internet, it's just a matter of the customer is always confused about what we intended to write when we were telling them what they'd get.
The two comments I've read from you are well-worded and thought-out as well. It's just a shame that they haven't really given a response at all. I'm not expecting that it'll fall to the side I'd prefer, but even a "We've heard your opinion and we're looking into trying to make a compromise." would be fine for me.
I was trying to find the post where they talked about Loyalty pics, thinking that there would be some sort of question from a Perm member saying, "Do we get these too?" and having staff replying with a "You'll always have the max." because I'm pretty sure I've seen that response. Just going through all the comments was too daunting. Clicking "Previous 20" wasn't that bad.
Thank you! I knew those posts existed that said max amount of icons! Thank you for going back and finding them and highlighting the relevant parts! I am curious as to how (and if) LJ eventually responds to this issue.
Although, I gotta admit, I am hopeful and I randomly check my icons to see if the number magically increases.
Oh YES, good point! I never even thought about that, but you're right. I bought my perm account in 2005 too. I hope they actually get back to you (us).
Yeah, I'm wondering about this myself, especially since when I got my permanent account I had to spend an extra $50 in charitable donations (which worked out okay but was still annoying).
I don't NEED eleventy hundred userpics, but the account I paid for says I get the max number of userpics, which makes me think we should be getting, you know...the max number of userpics.
As much as I'd love to suddenly have twice as many userpics (oh, userpics!), I just can't come to the same conclusion that you have.
I do not see a promise to have as many userpics as it is physically possible for the site to provide. I see a promise that no account type will be introduced with more userpics--no Permanent² accounts, for example.
(Also, big tangent: it rarely comes down to "The customer is always right." It usually comes down to "The customer is trying to apply last week's coupon, has 12 of a 'limit of 2' item, or has completely misunderstood the ad." Clerks don't like to deal with customers, especially irate ones, and would not put themselves on the spot if the customer were not, in fact, usually wrong. But anyway--not comparable, since you're not shouting at a low-paid cashier over a sale they have no actual control over, yes?)
I worked retail for way too many years. I was in management for four of them and customer service for two of them.
I am never a fan of customers shouting at me, claiming that they are right and I am wrong; when, clearly, I am not wrong. However, even in those instances, it's always easier to avoid the hassle and retain the customer with a compromise of some sort. I mean, the customer gives you money. A happy customer will tell five friends about their positive experience, but a negative one will tell twenty.
The funny thing is that Paid accounts get 30 icons. They can add on extra user pics of 70+ icons.
Permanent accounts get those 30+70 forever. Which means that we have an extra-icon package added to our account permanently.
If I go to 'resize' it says that I don't have any extra-icon packages, because they don't see my permanent account as having the extra-thing they see it as my account starting off with the extra-thing as PART of my account.
So, if that's true - then why can't I resize it like everyone else? Is it because, LJ can't say that it would expire at some point and then they can't charge me with money? Because, that is the part where it sounds like all they want is for me to pay for a monthly service, when I was assured when I purchased my account I would "Never have to worry about another payment."
Sure, five years ago they didn't even have the notion of a-la-carte icons and yes, they didn't think to write very carefully to say, "You'll never have to pay for the base paid account." because, well that sounds like you're trying to trick someone later down the line.
I think, what I'd like, is just a compromise of some sort. I'm not even going to attempt to believe that at some magical point down the line they'll just say, "Oh, alright, here you go, we were wrong." because I've never seen that happen.
I'd just like some sort of compromise. Raise our base number of userpics. Grant us a different pricing scheme. Heck, address the actual question instead of ignoring it for a week. I have to believe they are talking about it. I want to believe there is a marker board up somewhere that has "Perm Accounts + ALaCarte = ??" written on it.
The not knowing, the not thinking that they are trying to help us out in our frustration; that's the most annoying part.
Way late response, my apologies. I've been waiting to kick a cold so I make more sense. But hell, I rarely make sense anyway. ;)
I'm not saying compromise is bad. I'm saying that more often than not, there's a misunderstanding that needs addressed rather than a customer that needs mollified. Simple mollification does more harm than good, because that leads to entitled behavior, like women yelling at me across counters about what Walmart does that is against my store's policies, etc.
Also, in case it's not obvious, "the customer is always right" is a big pet peeve for me. It was so often quoted at me by people asking me to violate store policy for them. "Hey LJ, you need to address this": this I agree with, because it seems to be a big source of confusion and anger.
Actually, paid accounts had 30 pics and could add 100 through a previous tack-on for paid accounts, for some 130 pics before loyalty pics were added in; I believe that's where the number for Permanent accounts comes from, the 'expanded paid account' number. So it's not the a la carte expandable package, but the set previous package.
The late response is fine. At this point, arguing amongst ourselves about whose opinion is more right is just going to end up with a silly debate going on.
Just to state though, it's always been that paid accounts get 30 icons as a base. You used to be able to get 100 icons by paying for the extra 70 icons. Trust me, I have this permanent account, but I also have over 20 other paid accounts that have either 30 icons at present or 100 icons, before loyalty icons get added on. People are upgrading to 100 icons, bringing the icon package to 30+70=100 The package is still the same now, it's adding 70 icons to a paid account. Which is why you can choose one package = 100, two = 170 or three = 240 icons. It has never been adding 100 icons to your paid account, it's always been upgrading to 100 icons, which is actually just getting an extra 70.
My understanding was the same as yours, that the Permanent account was that "extended Paid account" without ever having to pay again. As that extended account option has been chucked entirely in favor of 3 optional 70-icon add-ons, the logic does get shifty--they've supplanted the system that dictated why Permanent accounts get so many userpics, and by logic they should indeed adjust the number of userpics for Permanent accounts accordingly.
Anyway, I was going through the entries, because there seems to be a definite road-block being put up toward replying to people about making Permanent Account members pay for having a feature they thought they already had.
Maybe, you're not sure why we were all led to believe that we would never have to pay for a feature on our account? Perhaps you're wondering where we'd get a silly idea like "having the maximum amount of icons" all the time?
I have here three different posts, about permanent account sales, that state right there that we'd never have to make a payment again and that we'd have the most userpics available, along with a note that it's always increasing.
This would be, as far as I'm concerned, one of those "always increasing" moments.
I've had my permanent account since 2005 and every time something has changed, it's been perked to my account based on the original agreement that I paid for. It's meant to be the best account option available. You promote it to be this special thing that we should save our money up for when it comes around every one to two years, but now other uses have more than us and that's not what we signed up for.
Even those of us with permanent accounts, don't just hang out here and not give money to the site. We pay for V-Gifts, accounts for our friends - other accounts. Heck, I got 15 notifs that my credit card associated with automatic payments was going to expire next month. That's a lot of money to spend per year with your service. I'm not the only one that has more than one account either.
I just want what I was promised. If this was any other business and I was being jerked around like this I'd talk to the manager. Then it'd come down to the old rule of, "The customer is always right."
I guess here on the internet, it's just a matter of the customer is always confused about what we intended to write when we were telling them what they'd get.
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ETA: Thanks for taking the time to go through all of those posts and find and repost those. I didn't have the patience to even attempt it.
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I was trying to find the post where they talked about Loyalty pics, thinking that there would be some sort of question from a Perm member saying, "Do we get these too?" and having staff replying with a "You'll always have the max." because I'm pretty sure I've seen that response. Just going through all the comments was too daunting. Clicking "Previous 20" wasn't that bad.
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I am curious as to how (and if) LJ eventually responds to this issue.
Although, I gotta admit, I am hopeful and I randomly check my icons to see if the number magically increases.
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I don't NEED eleventy hundred userpics, but the account I paid for says I get the max number of userpics, which makes me think we should be getting, you know...the max number of userpics.
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Signed, unimpressed permanent user.
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I do not see a promise to have as many userpics as it is physically possible for the site to provide. I see a promise that no account type will be introduced with more userpics--no Permanent² accounts, for example.
(Also, big tangent: it rarely comes down to "The customer is always right." It usually comes down to "The customer is trying to apply last week's coupon, has 12 of a 'limit of 2' item, or has completely misunderstood the ad." Clerks don't like to deal with customers, especially irate ones, and would not put themselves on the spot if the customer were not, in fact, usually wrong. But anyway--not comparable, since you're not shouting at a low-paid cashier over a sale they have no actual control over, yes?)
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I am never a fan of customers shouting at me, claiming that they are right and I am wrong; when, clearly, I am not wrong. However, even in those instances, it's always easier to avoid the hassle and retain the customer with a compromise of some sort. I mean, the customer gives you money. A happy customer will tell five friends about their positive experience, but a negative one will tell twenty.
The funny thing is that Paid accounts get 30 icons. They can add on extra user pics of 70+ icons.
Permanent accounts get those 30+70 forever. Which means that we have an extra-icon package added to our account permanently.
If I go to 'resize' it says that I don't have any extra-icon packages, because they don't see my permanent account as having the extra-thing they see it as my account starting off with the extra-thing as PART of my account.
So, if that's true - then why can't I resize it like everyone else? Is it because, LJ can't say that it would expire at some point and then they can't charge me with money? Because, that is the part where it sounds like all they want is for me to pay for a monthly service, when I was assured when I purchased my account I would "Never have to worry about another payment."
Sure, five years ago they didn't even have the notion of a-la-carte icons and yes, they didn't think to write very carefully to say, "You'll never have to pay for the base paid account." because, well that sounds like you're trying to trick someone later down the line.
I think, what I'd like, is just a compromise of some sort. I'm not even going to attempt to believe that at some magical point down the line they'll just say, "Oh, alright, here you go, we were wrong." because I've never seen that happen.
I'd just like some sort of compromise. Raise our base number of userpics. Grant us a different pricing scheme. Heck, address the actual question instead of ignoring it for a week. I have to believe they are talking about it. I want to believe there is a marker board up somewhere that has "Perm Accounts + ALaCarte = ??" written on it.
The not knowing, the not thinking that they are trying to help us out in our frustration; that's the most annoying part.
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I'm not saying compromise is bad. I'm saying that more often than not, there's a misunderstanding that needs addressed rather than a customer that needs mollified. Simple mollification does more harm than good, because that leads to entitled behavior, like women yelling at me across counters about what Walmart does that is against my store's policies, etc.
Also, in case it's not obvious, "the customer is always right" is a big pet peeve for me. It was so often quoted at me by people asking me to violate store policy for them. "Hey LJ, you need to address this": this I agree with, because it seems to be a big source of confusion and anger.
Actually, paid accounts had 30 pics and could add 100 through a previous tack-on for paid accounts, for some 130 pics before loyalty pics were added in; I believe that's where the number for Permanent accounts comes from, the 'expanded paid account' number. So it's not the a la carte expandable package, but the set previous package.
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Just to state though, it's always been that paid accounts get 30 icons as a base. You used to be able to get 100 icons by paying for the extra 70 icons. Trust me, I have this permanent account, but I also have over 20 other paid accounts that have either 30 icons at present or 100 icons, before loyalty icons get added on. People are upgrading to 100 icons, bringing the icon package to 30+70=100 The package is still the same now, it's adding 70 icons to a paid account. Which is why you can choose one package = 100, two = 170 or three = 240 icons. It has never been adding 100 icons to your paid account, it's always been upgrading to 100 icons, which is actually just getting an extra 70.
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My understanding was the same as yours, that the Permanent account was that "extended Paid account" without ever having to pay again. As that extended account option has been chucked entirely in favor of 3 optional 70-icon add-ons, the logic does get shifty--they've supplanted the system that dictated why Permanent accounts get so many userpics, and by logic they should indeed adjust the number of userpics for Permanent accounts accordingly.
You've won me over. :)
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