Re: Comments (with spoilers)ramplingSeptember 4 2002, 20:45:43 UTC
Well, I went in expecting to not like the movie, and perhaps even hate it. I had been warned that I'd probably be offended, especially by the end (I was told). So I knew it was an experiment for me, a way to see what other people liked. So I can't say it was a waste of money, because I did get that. But as entertainment, it rather failed for me and I definitely disliked the movie. I'm surprised that atheists would find this movie enjoyable. But then many atheists believe in stuff I can't stomach, like astrology, feng shui, *very* alternative medicines, etc. I've heard that some atheists can handle the statement "things happen for a reason", while I cannot. I guess I'm both a flaming atheist *and* skeptic, so stuff like this movie hits me rather wrong.
Anyway, the vastly differing enjoyments of this movie, including by atheists, has been an important piece of new information for me. It's important for me to realize just how divergent even atheist feelings about such things can be. Worth the price of the movie ticket -- even if I didn't get what they were intending to sell me.
Re: Comments (with spoilers)neural_girlSeptember 5 2002, 01:41:44 UTC
But then many atheists believe in stuff I can't stomach, like astrology, feng shui, *very* alternative medicines, etc. I've heard that some atheists can handle the statement "things happen for a reason", while I cannot. I guess I'm both a flaming atheist *and* skeptic, so stuff like this movie hits me rather wrong.
Just to be clear, those things you mention all drive me nuts, too. I'm very impatient with astrology, etc., and the statement "things happen for a reason". My point was that I don't have a problem with a story about someone else's own life choices, if I find them consistent with the character, even if those are not life choices I would make. I enjoy stories about all sorts of different kinds of people, I guess, including some people that I would vehemently disagree with if I met them. I didn't feel like I was supposed to agree with them, necessarily - I was just watching the way that these people behaved in this situation.
Re: Comments (with spoilers)ramplingSeptember 10 2002, 02:33:42 UTC
But I guess my problem with this movie is that it felt to me that the writer was trying to illustrate (in a heavy-handed way) that "things happen for a reason". The major events of the flick are set up that way. If the protagonist came up with stuff in a creative way to solve his problems, that'd be one thing, but mumbling over his potentially dying son something to the effect that "he had asthma for a reason" really badly rubbed me the wrong way. To me, the pieces fit together at the end in a very obviously pre-ordained way that rang very false to my mind.
I also enjoy stories about different kinds of people, and can suspend my disbelief for fun fantasy stories. But this story -- the part about the protagonist's faith -- was presented in an apparently realistic manner. So I couldn't go along for the ride, since I disagreed too strongly.
However, I was offended by the protagonist's rudeness to his brother earlier in the movie, when his brother was scared and looking for reassurance. Mel Gibson's character started out saying reassuring stuff, then just turned around and added that he didn't believe any of that. I thought his timing of that statement was annoying and rude and nasty. I would never do something like that to someone in such a situation. If their faith comforted them (and wasn't lulling them to dangerous levels of inaction) I'd definitely leave it be. Perhaps this scene was another stab at someone's idea of how rude atheists *must* be. Ick.
Re: Comments (with spoilers)neural_girlSeptember 10 2002, 12:27:21 UTC
Fair enough. And perhaps you are right about the writer's intentions. I'm glad I didn't see it the same way, because I really had fun. But I understand what you are saying.
Re: Comments (with spoilers)ramplingSeptember 10 2002, 20:07:41 UTC
Glad you were able to have fun with the movie. It's annoying for me when I feel left out of the fun of a movie, and people think something's wrong with me for not being able to enjoy a particular flick that they liked. I didn't like "Something About Mary" and had to sit and listen to the audience shriek with delight throughout the flick while I sat in unamused discomfort. I don't like violent flicks or movies with slapstick (explains my problem with "Mary"). Oh well; I live with my differences.
Anyway, the vastly differing enjoyments of this movie, including by atheists, has been an important piece of new information for me. It's important for me to realize just how divergent even atheist feelings about such things can be. Worth the price of the movie ticket -- even if I didn't get what they were intending to sell me.
Reply
Just to be clear, those things you mention all drive me nuts, too. I'm very impatient with astrology, etc., and the statement "things happen for a reason". My point was that I don't have a problem with a story about someone else's own life choices, if I find them consistent with the character, even if those are not life choices I would make. I enjoy stories about all sorts of different kinds of people, I guess, including some people that I would vehemently disagree with if I met them. I didn't feel like I was supposed to agree with them, necessarily - I was just watching the way that these people behaved in this situation.
Reply
I also enjoy stories about different kinds of people, and can suspend my disbelief for fun fantasy stories. But this story -- the part about the protagonist's faith -- was presented in an apparently realistic manner. So I couldn't go along for the ride, since I disagreed too strongly.
However, I was offended by the protagonist's rudeness to his brother earlier in the movie, when his brother was scared and looking for reassurance. Mel Gibson's character started out saying reassuring stuff, then just turned around and added that he didn't believe any of that. I thought his timing of that statement was annoying and rude and nasty. I would never do something like that to someone in such a situation. If their faith comforted them (and wasn't lulling them to dangerous levels of inaction) I'd definitely leave it be. Perhaps this scene was another stab at someone's idea of how rude atheists *must* be. Ick.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment