Re: This made me happy todayneptunesubmergeFebruary 9 2011, 04:00:09 UTC
I can always count on you. I am very proud of him for being able to make that feelings/Pepper connection and having the stones to actually try to act on it. However, the way things turned out sort of broke my heart.
And I was waiting for so long to see her come clean that I hate not seeing her side of the conversation. Between 33, in which she just laid there, 500's supposed former baby incubator and 500.1, it is like Pepper isn't even a character anymore, just a prop.
Re: This made me happy todayroboticonographFebruary 9 2011, 04:05:27 UTC
Actually, I was really hoping that you would write some fanfic where we got to hear Pepper's side of the conversation.
(Although that wasn't my reason for posting this. That would make me a crummy friend, wouldn't it? "Here, cheer yourself up by doing something that'll make me happy.")
I also thought that the story ended so shortly after their conversation that there was still so much room for further engagement. She could call him back. Hell, if she's close enough for him to get to her, she's close enough to get in her car and drive to where he is. Where is my fanfic fairy godperson when I need them?
My heart is a little broken, too, but I feel like there are good Pepper moments coming. I really do.
Re: This made me happy todayneptunesubmergeFebruary 9 2011, 04:19:58 UTC
Actually...that had not really occured to me, but I could. I started writing a story to the effect of this conversation a few months back that involved Pepper starting to come clean, but then getting side-tracked by her visions of tentacle monsters and they talk about that instead for a while before getting back to the topic at hand. It was not very good. Pepper's side of the existing conversation would be better. I've been at an impasse lately because my only ideas weren't hugely worth writing about. And the file for Mirror, Mirror chapter 4 has been sitting open and half-finished on my dash since December.
She wasn't in the previews at all, which has killed some of my hope. I'm crossing my fingers for a Rescue vs. Spymaster fight and for Pepper to play some sort of role in Fear, Itself or at least the Iron Man crossover issues thereof. I feel like no one is interested in her but Fraction and if she's going to get on the map, she needs to be part of the Crisis Crossovers. Here is a Crisis Crossover by Fraction. Get people excited about Pepper!
Re: This made me happy todayroboticonographFebruary 9 2011, 04:30:37 UTC
All excellent possibilities!
The great thing about Pepper is that when she's written well, she barely even needs to be in more than a few panels to have a profound impact. Like in "Good Morning, Tony"--one panel, no dialogue, was all it took to convey everything we needed to know.
Not that I want her to be mostly absent, but, you know, hope springs eternal.
The end of 500.1 left me feeling so jazzed about the fanfic possibilities. (And the story overall was such an important step in Tony recognizing that he has been abusing coping mechanisms other than alcohol and that they are not giving him the support he needs. Not that I think it's necessarily a good step for Pepper to replace women at large in Tony's mind because he doesn't show a lot of respect for them as a group.)
You are my favourite comicverse writer for this fandom. I'd love to see what you would do with this. That's what I'm trying to say. Except I blather, a lot.
Re: This made me happy todayneptunesubmergeFebruary 9 2011, 05:00:49 UTC
You have more faith than I!
I'm of many minds regarding 500.1 On the one hand, I really liked it over all. On the other hand, there were lots of continuity snarls that were totally unneccessary. I am all for "don't let continuity stand in the way of a good story" but I really hate it when it is wrong for no reason. Demon in a Bottle stuff shouldn't be lumped together with Stane, Tony shouldn't cite his almost healthy relationship with my girl Whitney as happening after he got sober, ect. On my imaginary third mutant hand, the ending was saddening.
I will accept being your favorite comicverse writer if you can name, let's say...three others. Otherwise, I'm just here by default.
If there is one thing I am, it's well-read.roboticonographFebruary 9 2011, 05:27:15 UTC
Yikes, name authors that I think you're better than on a public post that they can see? Despite my frequent ramblings about drinking my own height in highballs, I like to think that I have more class than that.
I will say that I enjoy the writing of elspethdixon and seanchai and gabby_silang and vega-writes very much. And many more besides. There are a lot of excellent writers out there doing good work in both versions of the story.
(Seriously, if you haven't read gabby_silang's Extremis!fic, "Wonderful Electric", DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200.)
Re: If there is one thing I am, it's well-read.neptunesubmergeFebruary 9 2011, 06:00:14 UTC
Sorry, I didn't want to be rude or something, I just only have ever found one other person who writes Iron Man comic!fic. I simply did not expect you to be able to come up with that many people. Since you HAVE, I now have a reading list!
Re: If there is one thing I am, it's well-read.roboticonographFebruary 9 2011, 06:22:11 UTC
It's okay. I just couldn't quite decide if you were (a) impugning my reading abilities (mildly insulting as I am in fact extremely well-read) or (b) suggesting that no one else could hold a candle to you (which, given that I suggested it first, wouldn't be completely unreasonable) or (c) simply making a commentary on the lack of other comic fic writers. And then it turned out to be C and all was well in the land!
That is just the tip of the iceberg, and not all of the folks I named above write Tony/Pepper (most of the comic fic writers out there seem to write Tony/Steve), but they all have style and I like them. And I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to other people's writing, so you can take that for what it's worth.
Try searching on delicious and An Archive of Our Own. You'll find them. :)
Re: If there is one thing I am, it's well-read.neptunesubmergeFebruary 9 2011, 07:15:16 UTC
(A) I'm...not sure how it would be read as an insult to your abilities? I was attempting to make an outlandish request to prove a point--that there were no other Iron Man comicfic writers. You proved me wrong. I am familiar with Elspeth Dixon's stories and am very fond of them. That's a semantic matter, I suppose, as I tend to separate Iron Man fic from Avengers fic. It is much easier to find comic!fic dealing with the Avengers as a group (or couples thereof) than just Iron Man, his supporting characters and unique concerns. (Tony/Steve frustrates me. They are so passive-aggressive. Tony/Thor is where its at! They sit around talking about their love.)
(B) That is like..the opposite of me. When people have something nice to say about my work, I am half-convinced they are lying to me as part of some sort of complex plot against me that involves fanfic for some reason..? I have a much stronger and more positive reaction to criticism than praise. I don't like flames, mind you, but I do like it when someone thinks enough about what I have to say to formulate a counter-argument.
(C) I genuinely thought finding three writers was an outlandish request! You had four immediately. I would tip my hat to you, if I were the hat wearing type.
Outlandish requests are also my default reaction to situations where I don't know what to say, so if I ever ask you to make blueberry pancakes while standing on one foot and humming the 1812 Overture, that's why.
Re: If there is one thing I am, it's well-read.roboticonographFebruary 9 2011, 15:40:05 UTC
I'm willing to take total ownership of (a)--as a relative newcomer to the fandom (and only occasional follower of The Avengers) I feel somewhat inadequate around long-time comic fans and their encyclopedic knowledge and so tend to assume that they are all secretly disdainful of me. (This is due mostly to bad experience in other fandoms and is no reflection on IM fans, who have been very nice to me thus far.) So in my head it was kind of like "in what sense are YOU qualified to judge my work?" which obviously is not what you are about at all.
As for (b), I never give an author criticism of their creative work unless specifically asked to do so, and I always warn people beforehand that I don't pull punches. I write professionally and I have a pretty thick skin about my own writing.
But I do think it's important to tell good writers that I like their work, because we all do this for free and it's nice to know that it's appreciated.
When I first started reading your stuff on ff.net, I was appalled by some of the reviews you'd been left, particularly by movie fans. I guess I feel as though I need to make up for that a little. But you really are my favourite comic writer--I wouldn't say something like that just to flatter you. It's a personal choice: I just agree with a lot of what you have to say. I enjoy your take on Tony so very much, and I like that you can make him sympathetic and charming without excusing or whitewashing his faults. I also like that you are able to navigate the Tony/Pepper dynamic with such skill given that their history in the comics is a lot more complex and involves a number of other characters as well. And I think you know how to turn a phrase without being showy about it (I frequently battle with a compulsion to use ALL THE WORDS I KNOW in any given situation). And you have that most blessed of gifts--brevity. Your writing is so compact without lessening the impact. "It Was Always Her" felt (from an emotional standpoint) like getting punched in the stomach 100 times. In the best possible sense, of course.
Re: If there is one thing I am, it's well-read.neptunesubmergeFebruary 9 2011, 22:04:55 UTC
Well...I WILL admit that I am a freaking know-it-all when it comes to this stuff and I am often concerned that I come off as hostile because of it. I'm just really, really eager to talk about comics and, I guess I also want to show-off and establish myself as someone who knows what they are talking about. You would run into disdainful long-time fans is horrible. There's this stigma on comics being hard to get into because of the history and the last thing we need is long-term fans who know the history to make the fandom hostile for new comers.
Well, B, you officially have permission to give me criticism from now on. I can't improve if I don't know what I'm doing wrong and while I will often see mistakes when I go over a posted story a few months later, it is never a garuntee. I'm never 100% on characterization and I'm desperately in love with run-on sentences. I think they can be a great way to show and chaotic and hurried state of mind, but they can also become cumbersome and difficult to understand. I kind of hate how short my stories tend to be. They are totally plotless and usually just two people having a conversation. I love Tony primarily because of his faults, they are kind of what makes him sympathetic in my eyes. If he was just some wealthly, brilliant alpha male with a perfect life, he'd be completely unlikable.
Re: If there is one thing I am, it's well-read.roboticonographFebruary 9 2011, 16:49:28 UTC
My issue is that when I sit down to do it I feel overwhelmed by the sheer scope of continuity of Tony's life. He's already had several lifetimes' worth of experience, and I'd really want to do justice to all of it. There are so many little details I feel like I would forget or misinterpret--like some of the continuity slips you pointed out in 500.1.
(I desperately want to write Stark Solutions fic one day though. Tony as a jet-setting philanthropist consultant with Happy and Pepper as his support crew? I love it. Glowing alien fetus and time travel not included.)
Re: If there is one thing I am, it's well-read.neptunesubmergeFebruary 9 2011, 22:08:30 UTC
Do not let continuity stand in the way of fic writing! "Don't let continuity stand in the way of a good story!" is practically Marvel's motto! It is absolutely impossible to know everything! Work with what you do know and disregard what you don't need to tell your story.
The glowing fetus loves you. Why won't you love it back? D:
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And I was waiting for so long to see her come clean that I hate not seeing her side of the conversation. Between 33, in which she just laid there, 500's supposed former baby incubator and 500.1, it is like Pepper isn't even a character anymore, just a prop.
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(Although that wasn't my reason for posting this. That would make me a crummy friend, wouldn't it? "Here, cheer yourself up by doing something that'll make me happy.")
I also thought that the story ended so shortly after their conversation that there was still so much room for further engagement. She could call him back. Hell, if she's close enough for him to get to her, she's close enough to get in her car and drive to where he is. Where is my fanfic fairy godperson when I need them?
My heart is a little broken, too, but I feel like there are good Pepper moments coming. I really do.
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She wasn't in the previews at all, which has killed some of my hope. I'm crossing my fingers for a Rescue vs. Spymaster fight and for Pepper to play some sort of role in Fear, Itself or at least the Iron Man crossover issues thereof. I feel like no one is interested in her but Fraction and if she's going to get on the map, she needs to be part of the Crisis Crossovers. Here is a Crisis Crossover by Fraction. Get people excited about Pepper!
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The great thing about Pepper is that when she's written well, she barely even needs to be in more than a few panels to have a profound impact. Like in "Good Morning, Tony"--one panel, no dialogue, was all it took to convey everything we needed to know.
Not that I want her to be mostly absent, but, you know, hope springs eternal.
The end of 500.1 left me feeling so jazzed about the fanfic possibilities. (And the story overall was such an important step in Tony recognizing that he has been abusing coping mechanisms other than alcohol and that they are not giving him the support he needs. Not that I think it's necessarily a good step for Pepper to replace women at large in Tony's mind because he doesn't show a lot of respect for them as a group.)
You are my favourite comicverse writer for this fandom. I'd love to see what you would do with this. That's what I'm trying to say. Except I blather, a lot.
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I'm of many minds regarding 500.1
On the one hand, I really liked it over all.
On the other hand, there were lots of continuity snarls that were totally unneccessary. I am all for "don't let continuity stand in the way of a good story" but I really hate it when it is wrong for no reason. Demon in a Bottle stuff shouldn't be lumped together with Stane, Tony shouldn't cite his almost healthy relationship with my girl Whitney as happening after he got sober, ect.
On my imaginary third mutant hand, the ending was saddening.
I will accept being your favorite comicverse writer if you can name, let's say...three others. Otherwise, I'm just here by default.
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I will say that I enjoy the writing of elspethdixon and seanchai and gabby_silang and vega-writes very much. And many more besides. There are a lot of excellent writers out there doing good work in both versions of the story.
(Seriously, if you haven't read gabby_silang's Extremis!fic, "Wonderful Electric", DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200.)
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That is just the tip of the iceberg, and not all of the folks I named above write Tony/Pepper (most of the comic fic writers out there seem to write Tony/Steve), but they all have style and I like them. And I'm a bit of a snob when it comes to other people's writing, so you can take that for what it's worth.
Try searching on delicious and An Archive of Our Own. You'll find them. :)
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(B) That is like..the opposite of me. When people have something nice to say about my work, I am half-convinced they are lying to me as part of some sort of complex plot against me that involves fanfic for some reason..? I have a much stronger and more positive reaction to criticism than praise. I don't like flames, mind you, but I do like it when someone thinks enough about what I have to say to formulate a counter-argument.
(C) I genuinely thought finding three writers was an outlandish request! You had four immediately. I would tip my hat to you, if I were the hat wearing type.
Outlandish requests are also my default reaction to situations where I don't know what to say, so if I ever ask you to make blueberry pancakes while standing on one foot and humming the 1812 Overture, that's why.
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As for (b), I never give an author criticism of their creative work unless specifically asked to do so, and I always warn people beforehand that I don't pull punches. I write professionally and I have a pretty thick skin about my own writing.
But I do think it's important to tell good writers that I like their work, because we all do this for free and it's nice to know that it's appreciated.
When I first started reading your stuff on ff.net, I was appalled by some of the reviews you'd been left, particularly by movie fans. I guess I feel as though I need to make up for that a little. But you really are my favourite comic writer--I wouldn't say something like that just to flatter you. It's a personal choice: I just agree with a lot of what you have to say. I enjoy your take on Tony so very much, and I like that you can make him sympathetic and charming without excusing or whitewashing his faults. I also like that you are able to navigate the Tony/Pepper dynamic with such skill given that their history in the comics is a lot more complex and involves a number of other characters as well. And I think you know how to turn a phrase without being showy about it (I frequently battle with a compulsion to use ALL THE WORDS I KNOW in any given situation). And you have that most blessed of gifts--brevity. Your writing is so compact without lessening the impact. "It Was Always Her" felt (from an emotional standpoint) like getting punched in the stomach 100 times. In the best possible sense, of course.
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Well, B, you officially have permission to give me criticism from now on. I can't improve if I don't know what I'm doing wrong and while I will often see mistakes when I go over a posted story a few months later, it is never a garuntee. I'm never 100% on characterization and I'm desperately in love with run-on sentences. I think they can be a great way to show and chaotic and hurried state of mind, but they can also become cumbersome and difficult to understand. I kind of hate how short my stories tend to be. They are totally plotless and usually just two people having a conversation. I love Tony primarily because of his faults, they are kind of what makes him sympathetic in my eyes. If he was just some wealthly, brilliant alpha male with a perfect life, he'd be completely unlikable.
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I have seen you discuss the comics.
I have seen your computer.
You have the talent, the knowledge and the necessary equipment. Do iiiiiit.
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(I desperately want to write Stark Solutions fic one day though. Tony as a jet-setting philanthropist consultant with Happy and Pepper as his support crew? I love it. Glowing alien fetus and time travel not included.)
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The glowing fetus loves you. Why won't you love it back? D:
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