Nooooooo...don't make me cry again!! OMG. I love that and I hate that, you know what I mean? I LOVE that it was in there and that tribute was paid, and then again I'm still like, I want my Ten backkk. lol. Seriously show, can you break my heart more?! I believe the answer is yes. lol. I have got such issues with moving on. And the fact that apparently there's DT hate going on in the fandom makes me go WHAT THE WHATTTTTTT? I know the people doing it are douches that were all about DT three months ago, I'll get over it. I'm not reading any of it, but just knowing it's there, *sighs* oh internet fandom. In reality I know the internet haters are a minuscule percentage compared to the people who were giving him those NTA's EVERY year and the show NTA's EVERY year of his run, but yeah...sorry I didn't mean to rant. LOL.
But you know I would love loveeeeeeeeee for DT to come back in any capacity! (And *cough* Rose *cough*) I really am interested to see where this season goes! And in the trailer the Doctor had a gun! That really surprised me. I'm curious to see what the circumstances of that will be. Of course TEN had a gun in EoT so the circumstance could be anything. But man, it was a really good trailer.
CONGRATULATIONS on your acceptances, bb!!! That's awesome!
I know exactly what you mean. This scene makes me feel all fuzzy inside for badass!Doctorness, but, at the same time, seeing Ten's face as a past Doctor just makes my heart shrivel and die a little. It's confusing my brain! I think I've told you this about a million time before but Doctor Who has made this crazy emotional mess. No other show has just destroyed me to the point of tears as much as this has.
Oh God, I'm trying to stay away from fandom wank too--but I completely hate that it's there. I mean, its great that the fandom is so large, but at the same time, that just means that there are more rude idiots in it. I honestly don't understand the need to disparage an actor who was quite impressive in the role, even if he might not have been your cup of tea. I mean, I preferred DT to CE and MS, but that by no means means I'm going to run around insulting them, because they are great actors in their own right too. Though they're a small percentage, haters tend to be way more vocal those who like it, so it seems like they're everywhere. UGH. Now my turn to apologize for ranting. It's when I see stuff like this that I'm glad Camelot_Love is an isolationist community--it really helps enjoyment of a show when you don't have to deal with people trying to bait you. But to fight the DT haterade, I've equipped myself with more Ten icons to post everywhere.
BTW--just finished EoT. *SOBS.* Just when I'd accepted that he left...it all comes rushing back again. Some of the plot elements were a bit silly upon rewatch, but David, Bernard Cribbins, and John Simm did such an unbelievable job! I heart them all! And skydiving Doctor! I forgot how awesome that scene was.
You know what I'm NOT looking forward to though? River Song. I don't know why--even though I loved Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead...she bothers me a bit. Maybe I'll like her when she's completed.
No other show has just destroyed me to the point of tears as much as this has.
SO much word. *sighs* And yet it's what we love about it! We are THAT connected to it.
I honestly don't understand the need to disparage an actor who was quite impressive in the role, even if he might not have been your cup of tea. I mean, I preferred DT to CE and MS, but that by no means means I'm going to run around insulting them, because they are great actors in their own right too.
EXACTLY. And honestly I think what I was surprised by the most was that ANYONE disliked him. I was under the (I suppose naive) impression that he was absolutely loved by everyone, both himself and his character. All over LJ even when I didn't watch I felt like I saw him all the time because so many people would have icons and stuff you know? Until S5 premiered I'd never seen anything to suggest otherwise. I guess it was when I started seeing posts by those HARDCORE, watched every single series since '63 fans, that I realized I must have been wrong. Honestly, I just can't understand how you could hate Ten, or the stories that were written for him. I just think everything was brilliant (maybe I'm easily pleased? idk). Ah well, every fandom has 'em, I should have realized this one was no different. I still think it's pretty rad that when put on a poll with every single Doctor he was voted the best of them ALL. That has to count for something. But yes, C_L is one of the best places ever because of the very fact that you mention. I'm gonna switch out some icons I think, get some new DT/Ten stuff going, plus I need to find a couple of the new series. :D
GAH, EoT is not for the faint of heart. When you talk about the silly elements you mean the Timelord stuff or the Master stuff or something else? lol.
Another thing that struck me out stuff I've been seeing lately was that I had no idea people thought EoT was indulgent on RTD's part and that Ten and the specials were too over the top. Again, I thought it was brilliant, and GAHHH do I love a good drama scene, so I thought the entire series of Specials lead up to his regeneration perfectly. Not only that, but his regeneration was perfect. Granted, they were very sad, but one thing that struck me about RTD's writing was even in this fantasy world he was VERY real. Maybe these people wanted the Doctor to be happy, peppy all the time? I thought it was more than believable that after being alive 900 years the Doctor would finally start to deeply question a lot of things in his life and things that have happened to him, especially after all the things he's seen and been through. It's silly to think he'd just all the time be going around happy as a lark. Ten was made to be "alien," "supernatural," whatever...but he still had some extremely human impulses and ideas which made him relate able and much more moving and poignant to me. A good, DEEP character, that's what I want...not one note, lets save the world each week, then it's over till next time...and I guess the peeps that didn't like it would have rather had the sci-fi explosions with a bit thrown in about him regenerating and not much said about it later. EoT made things REAL; made the struggles real and DT killed it. /tangent again! LOLLL. I need to take doctorwho off my watch list. lol.
I think that he really is predominantly liked. As you mentioned, he is EVERYWHERE over the internet--you can't exist in any fandom without knowing who he is. I think the reason that the backlash isn't being put down swiftly is that a lot of Tennant fans are still trying to process a new Doctor, thus are staying away from S5 and non-Ten fandoms. Plus there was such a long break between specials that it probably let the Tennant mania settle a bit.
And there are always those who like to rage against the machine, taunting fans who liked the RTD/9/10 era just because it was popular. Mostly though, I think that the whole thing is quite reactionary. Those who loved S1-EoT were a very dominant force in fandom, and now that the 'reign has ended,' so to speak, people who didn't quite like see this as a reprieve. Unfortunately, that seems to mean idiocy to some people. I hope it dies down soon because I'm sick of seeing those stupid posts. I honestly wish doctorwho was as well moderated as merlin comms--free speech is great and all, but on the internet people tend to abuse it.
YES YES MOAR DT ICONS! Because I'm still mourning Ten, the only new series icon I'm allowing myself is the one I'm using right now. Though if I find a good Rory and 11 icon, I might use that. I think they'd make a great comedy team. I know everyone is all hopped up on that Jeff guy, but I like my characters a little dorky :P.
EoT--yeah it was some of the Master stuff (and a bit of the over-dramaticness from the Time Lords). I love the Doctor-Master rivalry, but sometimes the Master's plans are a little hokey--funny as all hell, but hokey. Even still, I loved their teamwork at the end! I really want to see the Master again, but I haven't decided if I want John Simm to only be 10's Master, or if I want him back to face down 11+.
Girl, I could not agree with you more about the specials if I tried. I thought the specials were excellent--I really liked that they were getting darker. It added a lot more dimension to the character, and were in line with how tired Ten must feel considering what he's been through. Then again, I prefer character driven stories to just plot of the week stories. It's why I don't want to watch OldWho--I'm sure it was good, but I don't think I would have liked it as much. I like to see the darker, emotional consequences to character actions. Wonder if people who think it was over the top prefer the relative lightness of OldWho for the opposite reason.
Okay, I have to go to a rehearsal now, but will be tackling all those other comments when I get back later (including River Song *shudder*). Okay rehearsal got pushed back a bit so I'll address RS now:
Yeah, well, I guess she got the RTD stamp of approval since she was created under his watch, but I still feel blindsided by the appearance of her character. I loved Rose, Martha and Donna as companions because I got to see how the Doctor came to care for them. Usually I like a little sneak peak into the future, but this peak was jarring. I guess when it comes to companions, I need to see them from the beginning, not at the end. But if I'm honest, my dislike stems from the fact that I like Rose the best. I hate to be petty like that, but it is what it is. I will try to keep an open mind. Some people have speculated that the whole River thing is actually a big con. Not sure I agree, but we'll see soon enough this season.
I assumed that she knew Ten was the Doctor because that's the only other person who would have been in the by then abandoned library? Or maybe she's known him for so long that she can spot him even if he as regenerated. I was actually wondering if that had something to do with her knowing his name--like maybe knowing his name allows her some special insight. They talked about the power of naming objects in the Shakespeare Code--maybe it's an old science that's also part of the Time Lords? When he asks River how she knows his real name, and who she is to him, he says something along the lines of "there's only one way I could have told you" and I've been dying of curiosity ever since. What's the way? And if it's good, TenII better be sharing it with Rose in Pete's world.
*applause* to your first two paragraphs. That is such a great point. It's funny how the ones who like to hate on everything come out in full force when things change.
Those who loved S1-EoT were a very dominant force in fandom, and now that the 'reign has ended,' so to speak, people who didn't quite like see this as a reprieve.
That's true. Plus, I never can understand, in ANY fandom, how if you hate a character SO much (especially the main character) WHY you continue to watch. If it's that torturous move on and stop ruining it for people that love it. It's that abuse of free speech you talk about. Some people just try to ruin things for everyone else. The internetz are a crazzyyy place for fandom rivalries that don't even really add up at all when you think about the overall percentages of people who don't go near internet fandoms.
I need to clear out all my icons and make them all DW/DT, etc. because that's all I've been using since I started watching back in Feb. LOL. It's an addiction. Definitely still in mourning, so I'm excited for tonight but again a little saddened. It will get better little by little as I force myself to accept it I suppose. lol.
OMG. If John Simm returned...WOW. He was just amazing. Then again, like you I kind of want him to be exclusively a part of Ten's era. DT and JS were SO SO amazing together. The Master never fails to crack me up. The thing that got me about the Timelord stuff was when Rassilon would speak it was like massive amounts of spit coming out of his mouth when he did it. LOL. I notice the weirdest things. Isn't Moffat pretty against bringing back anything that wasn't his in the RTD era? Like he wanted a brand new start to everything it seems. Which, btw, I'm not a huge fan of the new credits at all. I'm not feeling the new vortex and music. But again...new start, completely new show, and all that.
YES about OldWho. I don't think I'd be feeling it. I love characters that speak to me through their struggles and their triumphs. I haven't seen that out of 11 yet, but he's only been in one ep so far, so Moff might go there with him. I hope he does rather than leaving it just a comedy type thing. I remember in some interview DT did the interviewer was talking about DW being comedy and he replied with something like, "But is it really?" There's comic relief throughout the episodes of course, but the characters are much deeper than that.
Girl, if you're petty then I'm petty because I have that same feeling. And it's not like Rose was ever forgotten the ENTIRE series. I guess I just feel if Moff tries to change that it will be very inconstant on the Doctor's part and not true to the story thus far. And I guess I didn't like the fact that RS was supposed to be this all-knowing person that was more important in that moment than Donna or the Doctor. She rubs me the wrong way and if she tries to alter the story I'm not sure I can take it. lol. I will be cutting her off from the RTD era. But the Doctor has never had that love story, and I feel like Rose was his one and only so he shouldn't have it again. I'm horrible for that I guess. LOL. *crazy-shipper!*
That's interesting about the naming thing! That could be how she knew him. One thing that does make me feel a bit better is that she must have met him as someone else at first, and by the time she's dying he's Ten and doesn't know a thing about her and wants her to leave him alone...OMG. I really am horrible. LOL. I wonder how he could have told her?! I mean...it seems that he NEVER tells anyone, and apparently CAN'T tell anyone except for under certain circumstances...there must be some certain rule. Great that will now drive me crazy too. Oh and yes to Ten II telling Rose. :D
Some people just try to ruin things for everyone else.
I know, and that's why its so sad. To be fair though, from what I've seen today in the wake of E2, some 10 fans are equally guilt of this--again pretty reactionary-- trying to find fault with S5 so early in the run just because of all the hype from TEH. Give it time to get its sea legs before disowning Moffat. I think the took RTD 8 episodes to get S1 to someplace I found interesting. And you know all this mouthing off against S5 is just going to spur more insults directed backwards at S1-4. *Sigh.* It makes me tired just thinking about it.
Haha, I'm keeping at least one icon for other fandoms, should the need arise, but for the most part, I've been thick on the 10 icons. I never seem to want to use anything else :D. So I highly endorse your decision to do the same.
Then again, like you I kind of want him to be exclusively a part of Ten's era. DT and JS were SO SO amazing together.
Glad someone else agrees with me. Feels a bit selfish to think of it like that, but you know, in a show like Who, there are just some actor sets the go well together--and I'd like 11 to find his own version of the Master. I think it adds something to their rivalry that each regeneration of the Doctor has it's own regen of the Master. *loves these two*
when Rassilon would speak it was like massive amounts of spit coming out of his mouth
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG YES I NOTICED THAT TOO! It reminded me of the episode of Friends with Gary Oldman, where his character and Joey just spit at each other to enunciate.
Isn't Moffat pretty against bringing back anything that wasn't his in the RTD era?
Hn. Yeah, that's what he said, but then next week is Daleks and later Cybermen. Perhaps they're not RTD's per se, but they certainly were trademarks of his era. So maybe he just won't bring in things the RTD created, like the Ood (and Rose and Martha and Donna *angry face*). But I guess that still leave Jack open? It makes me a bit sad to say this, but I think we can pretty much kiss anything relating to 10s companions goodbye in the Moff era. I don't think he wants to audience reminded of them. I think that's one thing I would find hard to swallow about OldWho--once the companions were gone, they were forgotten. NewWho is great because that's not the case. I like the fact that Rose was never forgotten through S3-4, and Donna through the specials. And even Sarah Jane was brought back. I like that continuity. But that might be a trademark of RTDs era.
Well, I will trust Moffat for now because he does write great episodes, but I have to say I dislike the disdain he seems to show for things that came before him. I am curious to see how he fairs when he has to write not just 1 or 2 episodes per season but the bulk of them.
Yeah, not feeling the new credits. I guess 10 regeneration not only destroyed the Tardis, but it also turned the Time Vortex into a rain cloud O_o. And I can't really find the theme part of the new theme song. The main melody is missing through a good chunk of it. But I DO like the new action music for this season, and I can't wait to get my hands on it.
I love characters that speak to me through their struggles and their triumphs.
THIS SO HARD. I haven't read that DT interview, but what I really like about him is that since he's a fan himself, he gets the underlying nuances of why many of us like the show. It's about the continuous character growth.
GAHHHH...fandom wars are unbearable. I made the mistake of getting too into the LOST fandom a couple of years ago and it is just hateful. I mean, I've met some WONDERFUL people through it, and that I don't regret for a second, but I've learned not to read everything in the fandom because there are those out there that only like to fight with each other, and hate on things people like, and truth be told it does take away from your enjoyment of the show. That's the part that I learned to steer clear of because all fandoms have those areas, I'm sure. I don't want to be in with the S1-S4 vs. S5 crowd. S1-S4 will always be my fave, but I do really enjoy Moff's stuff so far, and I'm good with that, I'm not gonna give up on him yet. I love the show in itself to much to give up on it entirely, especially when it's just started anew, and is pretty much a totally different show.
I'd like 11 to find his own version of the Master.
Yes! And since we're going all new, why not? Plus, as much as I love the callbacks, again, at the same time I like 10's era being exclusive.
LOLLLL. You know what's sad? I've never seen an ep of Friends. I am a bad, bad person I know! I have no clue how I missed out all those years.
It makes me a bit sad to say this, but I think we can pretty much kiss anything relating to 10s companions goodbye in the Moff era.
Unfortunately I'm thinking the same thing. He really does want this to be all new and I guess that is emphasized by the fact that it was promoted as S1. When they release the dvds I wonder if they'll call it S5 or S1? Hmm. I would love to see any of the old companions again, including Jack. And the Ood! *cries* I always think of their last moments on the screen with 10. "We'll sing you to your sleep." *chokes up* When I recall that stuff DUDE did RTD do a wonderful job with that or what? He really and truly showed regeneration as death and you could feel it for 10...so beautiful and so sad. But YES. I have never seen another show that did continuity like RTD did with Doctor Who because even if the character wasn't there, they were sure to come up in conversation or by the way you could tell the Doctor was reminded of them...and I LOVE that, and it's something I really admire about his writing.
I have to say I dislike the disdain he seems to show for things that came before him. I am curious to see how he fairs when he has to write not just 1 or 2 episodes per season but the bulk of them.
THIS. I think it's too early to tell yet, as you said, from people hating on the eps already, but for sure I don't like him disrespecting things that came before him. I gotta say, I can't claim to know him but I'm not too impressed by him outside of his writing. Just as you mention later, I read what he said about Karen and it was like WHOA. Did that seriously come out of his mouth? It was wrong in so many ways. idk. And I can see how he might be trying to "sex" up the show a bit more, even from the way grown up Amy was introduced, which I hope isn't her main purpose from his pov. As someone said on the thread about that quote, Rose wasn't a stick, nor was Martha, and Donna had curves and all three were amazing, strong, beautiful women. That shouldn't change. But again, still too early to tell if it's the way it will go all series.
ROTFLLLLL. A RAIN CLOUD!!! WIN. Agreed, about the theme. I love how prominent it was before. But YES, Murray is still writing some amazing music, like the stuff from the trailer last week. He's SO talented.
I haven't read that DT interview, but what I really like about him is that since he's a fan himself, he gets the underlying nuances of why many of us like the show. It's about the continuous character growth.
YES. You pretty well say it all. And what I love about David is that he is such a fanboy that he could bring SO much extra to the role and play off of things he knows about previous Doctors and just use the little subtle things to make the Doctor more his own. I wish I could remember what interview it was. I've seen so many as of late they all kind of run together. lol.
Holy cow, yes I hate fandom wars. I can just imagine how terrible it must be in Lost fandom. The worst I ever experienced was Avatar: The Last Airbender--ship wars there were BRUTAL. It's so hard to read all that stuff and not get so furious that you want to strike back, but in the end it's more trouble than it's worth. So, like you, I try to stay out of it. It really does hinder enjoyment of the show.
When they release the dvds I wonder if they'll call it S5 or S1?
I was wondering that too. I guess we'll see pretty soon, right? I mean, the Merlin DVDs came out only a couple of months after the show ended. My guess is it'll depend on how well the show goes. If it can stand on its own, S1. If not, they'll tack it onto the previous run as S5.
I really loved the Ood too! Their song really does sorta open the flood gates in EoT2--it's so tragic and perfectly accompanies the regeneration. I also like what RTD did in expressing that regeneration is a bit like death, just because the Doctor is completely different after, despite having the same memories. 10 was entirely the opposite of 9, and 11 certainly isn't 10, and 12 won't be 11 at all. Obviously, personality is equality important to who a person is; when you take that away, you are essentially killing the character. I like that they acknowledged that.
I have never seen another show that did continuity like RTD did with Doctor Who because even if the character wasn't there, they were sure to come up in conversation or by the way you could tell the Doctor was reminded of them...and I LOVE that, and it's something I really admire about his writing.
THIS. SO MUCH THIS. You took the words right out of my mouth. It was much more realistic than completely forgetting the character entirely. I get a bit irritated when people say they didn't like that aspect of it, because I think it's really important to respect a character even after they've left by not forgetting they were around.
I'm not too impressed by him outside of his writing.
Ditto, but I'm really hoping to be proven wrong. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment--maybe it didn't come out how he meant it (though I'm not sure what else he could have meant). I personally hate it when shows try to "sex themselves up" gratutiously because it's becoming so cliche.
The trailer music is what I was talking about too! I sounded so good, and I love when the start playing it in episodes. I haven't heard it yet, but have they done a variation on the Doctor's Theme yet for this season?
He could bring SO much extra to the role and play off of things he knows about previous Doctors and just use the little subtle things to make the Doctor more his own.
Totally why I loved his performances. Because when they mentioned past Doctor events, you knew that he really did know what they were referencing. And I loved that--added so much to the character for me.
If you find interesting interviews, send 'em this way! There's so many that I have stopped trying to keep up with them all, but I love reading them!
And since I still have room, I'll talk about the audiobooks here. There are TONS of them--someone at doctorwho has been sharing them. I've got all those posts memed--let me know if you want the link. Only a smattering are done by DT, but I think the user posted everything they have that he's done in their first post.
BTW-- Have you seen the River Song post on doctorwho? Now I'm becoming even more curious about her character!
And lastly-- I need some lj formatting help because I'm layout stupid. I can't seem to get rid of that space between the lj tool bar and the top of my header--do you know how to do that?
It's so hard to read all that stuff and not get so furious that you want to strike back
Yep. And I've come to find everyone has their own views and they're most likely not going to be changed so in that situation it's best not to get involved.
Ooo...that makes sense about the dvds! Good point.
Obviously, personality is equality important to who a person is; when you take that away, you are essentially killing the character.
EXACTLY. And Ten explains it perfectly. "Some new man walks away..." *cries* It's just SO sad. I've started S4 and then it will be time for the Specials. I may have to go back and watch some happy eps after those. lol.
I get a bit irritated when people say they didn't like that aspect of it, because I think it's really important to respect a character even after they've left by not forgetting they were around.
YES! And how would it be in life, truly? When you lose someone regardless of in what way, you never forget them, especially so soon after, and ESPECIALLY when they're SO important to who you are. It really just brought even more believability to a sci-fi show which I loved because for all of the monsters and creatures it made it feel as if these people could be real; that's how good the character continuity was I think.
I don't think I've heard a variation on the Doctor's theme yet. I wonder if Murray will write an entirely new one? I also want them to release the Specials music on soundtrack! Grr.
I'll be on the interview look-out! Have you seen David on the show QI? I can't remember if I asked you that already...lol. He was SO good. The man knows everything, I swear. It was really recent too! Just this past Christmas.
A link would be WIN. I would love to hear them all. And anymore Doctor/Rose I can get a hold of is ALWAYS good.
Have you seen the River Song post on doctorwho?
I just read through it last night. :D That is if you mean the entry by the person saying there were 3 ways RS could be involved with the Doctor. It was an interesting read. I'm NOT AT ALL for her being his wife...just no, so I liked that person's ideas. Plus, I think something like that would be kind of dull (besides the fact I'm not fond of her anyway) when she could be a baddie or have some sort of depth otherwise. The poster said something in the trailer suggested she was a baddie?
Hmm...well in the CSS there's usually a code you can enter I think. The code looks something like this I'm guessing?
I believe you can add in margin-top: 0px; in there and it should take it out. Or if you have the header height at too many pixels, if you lessen that number it might also take it out. I hope that helps! It took me a minute to remember how it could be fixed, so let me know if it doesn't work. ;)
And I've come to find everyone has their own views and they're most likely not going to be changed so in that situation it's best not to get involved.
TOTALLY agree with that. To each his own. Agree to disagree and all the jazz. Hahaha look at us, we're so mature ^_^.
"Some new man walks away..."
YES--this is where his speech always gets me. Some new guys DOES walk away! I'm going to watch the DVD commentaries starting with S2 now. I've been dying too see these, but at the same time, I've been putting them off because once they're done, I have nothing to look forward to. Please do a movie together DT+BP~
you never forget them, especially so soon after, and ESPECIALLY when they're SO important to who you are.
Exactly how I see it too. So while it was unfair to Martha, yes, I think it was very true to Ten's state of mind at the time. He honestly didn't mean it--didn't even realize it. So while I do feel terribly for Martha (and annoyed at the producers for relegating her to the role of girl who pines after the Doctor), I can't really be made at the Doctor for it. Though it might be interesting to see how she interacts with 11--it was a questions over at DW that you probs saw, but I had to agree with everyone who said Martha. I think her personality would best fit in with 11s now.
DT on QI--is this different from the Comic Relief skit (with the White Suit?) If it is, THEN NOOOOOOO! *WANT IT NOW!*
Sent you a message about the audiobooks.
River Song-- yeah, I'm trying to keep an open mind about her being the Doctor's Wife, in case it is true, but I like how Moffy apparently says in the commentary that its not as simple as that. I need to listen for myself, but I'd love for there to be a greater mystery surrounding her. Some people were proposing that she was possible Rani for OriginalWho? That would be kinda interesting. Probably not true though. I'm glad that Moff has it all mapped out in his head--because that means we're more likely to see it!
Layout-- I tried adding 0px for margin-top, and changing the height, but it didn't work. I think it's actually because I'm using a flexible squares layout and there's a band around the top. Does that sound like it might be it?
Right? We should be proud of ourselves and our maturity. lol.
Gahhh, the commentaries. I haven't heard them all but I've been working my way through the DT ones. They're the ones I want to hear most of all, obvs. lol. I think I've heard all of them he did in S2 except for 'Girl in the Fireplace.' Haven't listened to it yet. I can't wait to hear his commentary on Journey's End either!! My faves are always when it's just actors commenting...and I like Julie Gardner too, she's a Ten/Rose shipper, I'm convinced. lol. The others get all technical with sets, and CGI, and all that, and I'm always wanting to know more about the characters and how things were acted and stuff.
He honestly didn't mean it--didn't even realize it.
YES. I've just made it to S4 and it's so sad when Ten tells Donna things got "complicated" between he and Martha. It was just better for them to part. It would be very cool to see 11 with her.
Yep, QI is a completely different show. It's where my default is from. He's wearing one of his velvet jackets, which kind of fits since it's Christmas and all...haha! It looks really nice. But he goes on about all this Beatles trivia. He's an encyclopedia. It's starts here and goes through five parts I believe. :D
Sent you a reply to your message. ;)
It's going to be so hard for me to keep an open mind if that's how things turn out with RS. lol. I just...can't make myself like her. We'll see how things go though, since you say, it's not that simple according to Moff. Hopefully it has nothing to do with them being romantically involved. I need to stop having expectations. ha. I do want to know already though, I wonder what ep she's in?
Awww..boo. I was afraid I was wrong. Hmm...that might be it. It's worth a look. I'm sorry I'm such a bad helper on this. I'm gonna keep thinking on what it might be.
It's weird...I loved GiF the first time I saw it, but I've been having a hard time bringing myself to rewatch it. It just feels...really painful for some reason. But anyway--yeah, haven't started the commentaries yet. Decided to have another go at S2 instead. But as soon as that's over--I'm sitting down and doing it! I totally agree about some of the CG stuff--I prefer it when the talk about characters as well. I wish they just had separate segements for CG so they can focus on other things in the commentary.
Yeah, in that scene where he tells Donna about Martha, I love the expression on his face. You can just see that he really regrets how he must have made her feel through it all. And that, of course, leads to one of my favorite scenes, "You're not mating with me, Sunshine." Hahaha *loves them*
OMG I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS! Okay, I'm saving it for next week, when all my work is done. YAY! I love stuff I haven't seen yet pops up. It's like a little present!
I want to say she shows up in 5 or 6. I think at this point, I really want to see her so we can get to solving the mystery surrounding her. It's driving me bananas. But, like you, I'd like to to be romance light.
Nah, thanks for the help--I so CS stupid that I wasn't sure if I'd coded wrong. I'll try to change me pattern at some point and see if it works. I also need to add a side bar for gifs *adds to to do list.*
OHHHH I need help IDing a DT gif. It's a close-up of his face, looking down (and his hair is blowing a little) and then he looks up at the camera. Hardly narrows it down, I know. I'm at work so I don't have it to post right now, but I'll show it to you later. I want the footage for the like MADNESS.
S2!!! It never gets old. Don't blame you for going back and watching those. ;) I really do feel that after Ten lost Rose he never was exactly back up to the same level of "carefree" (as much as you can be with a burden that he carries) that he was with her; not with Martha or with Donna. He moved on the best that he knew how, eventually, but still he just seemed much more...I don't know the word...aware of things maybe? Like the burden was harder to bear ever since she was lost? It's hard for me to put into words. But it makes losing her even more tragic for him. :( I know what you mean about GiF though. It's not my fave in S2 because Rose is relegated to the b/g more, and I think I noticed that more so on my second watch of it. Maybe because I was more aware of where the story was going for T/R, building them up, and just how sad the end was going to be for Ten & Rose so that what happens in GiF kind of seems out of left-field to me now? I don't know.
YES about the commentaries. Listen to 'The Fires of Pompeii' with DT and CT...LOLLL. There's some other producer that doesn't really say a word, but I anticipated lots of laughter on that one. That's all I will say. ;)
OMG. The mating scene!!!! bwahahaha. I love how well that moment sets up their dynamic. She really is not interested. I love when she tells Martha in 4.04 that when she hugs him he's so skinny he gives her a paper cut. ROTFL.
Nice!!! It will be a great end of the week treat. ;) I still haven't nearly seen all of DT's interviews, so it's exciting to think about still having stuff to watch!
I want to say she shows up in 5 or 6. I think at this point, I really want to see her so we can get to solving the mystery surrounding her. It's driving me bananas. But, like you, I'd like to to be romance light.
YES. At this point I'm ready to just rip off the band-aid be it good or bad because it's going to be revealed whether we like it or not. Lets just know what it is already! lol. I'm glad she'll be in the first half of the season though so we don't have to wait as long.
Dude, CSS drives me crazy. If you miss one little period or parentheses is messes everything up. GRR.
Ooo...I'm not sure of this gif but I would LOVE to see. It sounds glorious. btw, is there a certain place you find all your gifs or do you just happen upon them mostly?
I think you put it into words perfectly. He totally wasn't the same--he was way more guarded after S2. A lot more careful about letting people get close. He must have thought he got a bit too careless in allowing himself to get so attached to Rose, and forgetting that his lifestyle predisposes him to lose the people he loves. But yes, S2 was the height of his carefreeness. He just seemed darker after that. Even with Donna, who I think helped him recover the most, he was still filled with super!angst.
In rewatching GitF, I still think it's a brilliant episode thought the Rose stuff doesn't seem to fit in as well. I mean, I'm glad they included little hints that the whole situation makes Rose uncomfortable, but at the same time, would the Doctor really have crashed through the mirror without leaving Rose and Mickey with a way out? He'd have effectively stranded them on that ship if he hadn't found a way back. But, despite my grievances, there are still moments in that episode that slay me. Like when Renette manages to see inside the Doctor's mind--his expression when he figures out what she's done. And at the end, when he gets the fireplace online and asks her to wish him luck, and she says no--his reaction there is so brilliant. That whole little exchange is just so powerful.
GAHHH I cannot wait to listen to these commentaries now! Actor commentaries really are the best. I can imagine that the CT and DT ones are hilarious, those two being who they are.
Yes, lets rip off this River Song bandaid. I just want answers. GRRRR.
Gah, I forgot to post the gif...tonight when I get home I will for sure. Mostly I just stumble upon them. I haven't done and extensive gif search yet--I need to increase my collection for DW, Arrested Development, and The Thick of It.
Yep! Exactly. And in 'School Reunion' we see he's pretty determined to not leave Rose behind; to not let anything happen to tear them apart. Donna helped him tremendously, which, btw, I was rewatching 'Turn Left' last night and it occurred to me, the Doctor dies because he stays in the basement of HC Clemmens with the spider, drowning it. Are we meant to believe that he killed himself on purpose, specifically because of what happened to Rose, and he didn't have Donna there to save him? It seemed that way to me just because of the gist of 'Runaway Bride,' him being completely torn apart by the events of Doomsday...or is that a choice for the individual fan to make? Maybe I should have picked this up immediately. haha. Rewatching just got my gears turning on that. lol.
GitF is also a beautifully shot episode. I'm always struck by that. Even those little clockwork monsters are beautiful, just as the Doctor says with the clear glass covering their gears. Yeah, the biggest thing about the ep is the Rose stuff, and I thought the same! The Doctor would never have left anyone with no way out, especially Rose. Granted, he did leave Jack behind but we know later that he did so knowing what had just happened to Jack. Not to say it was right or not, and his relationship to Jack is much different than his to Rose. I just don't see him ever stranding her or Mickey anywhere. I love when Reinette is talking about "the lonely little boy" and the "lonely angel," and how they relate things back to "suffering the demons is worth if for the sake of an angel," I find all that imagery very beautiful and true to the Doctor for everyone that seems to come in contact with him. There are definitely some great moments in there. Honestly, I think the Rose stuff comes back to the fact that Moff didn't seem to like her so he just totally disregarded the characterization built by every other writer. I think it's pretty evident with the River stuff too. Completely out of left field really, to me. But we will find out more about that next week! Which, now I'm trying to reconcile how 11 could have met her in the future...whatever happened with them happened...he thought of a way to save her when she went back to Ten's era...and now he's meeting her again? So by meeting Ten did they effectively change the future that they had had before? I have no idea if I'm making sense...the time travel stuff boggles my mind sometimes. LOL.
I listened to the 'Silence in the Library' commentary yesterday. Interesting stuff there...
Hmmm...I didn't take it as him purposely killing himself, but being so caught up in his grief and rage that he stood there making angsty-face for so long that he didn't give himself enough time to get out. Without Donna to snap him out of it, he just let his emotions consume him, not really paying attention to the fact that he'd already finished them all off. Or that was my take at least. I can't really see the Doctor trying to kill himself, no matter what he's been through (unless it's to be self-sacrificing, in which case he'd be all onboard that train -_-).
But in rewatching New Earth, I picked up on something that I missed before--when Rose/Cassandra meets up with the Doctor again, and she's leading him to find the hidden chamber, she starts recommending that he do things that really should be way above her level of expertise. But it's not until her lack of reaction to the sick people that he deduces that she's not her (or at least, that's the only thing he sites to the Cat Nuns). I thought that was a subtle commentary on how intelligent the Doctor thinks she is. It made me quite happy to realize that he holds her in such high regard. Or perhaps I'm just seeing things the way I want them to be :P.
Ditto to everything you said on GiTF. Beautiful, but a little hard to love completely with its obvious bias against Rose. I know! River is next week. It's weird, but I am actually kind of excited to see her (and the Angels) as it's an actual connection back to the 10-era. Moffy seems to be doing everything he can to destroy/redo the things that came before. Tardis (which was fine), Sonic Screwdriver (which saddened be a bit), and now the old Daleks (and am I the only one who though 'Taste the Rainbow' when the new Daleks were unveiled?). But this is really a link back to the previous show, and I find myself searching for those more and more every week. I don't know why, but it's like I want constant reminders that there was something that came before. Blahhh...I'm not making any sense.
I'm not sure I understand your timeline question, but the first time the Doctor met River, obviously, was as 10, at what became the end of her life. I'm assuming next week is the first time River meets the Doctor (but the second time the Doctor is meeting River), which is BEFORE the events of SitL/FoD relative to her timeline but after the events of SiTL/FoD relative to his timeline. So in next week's ep she should be younger than she was in SitL/FoD and thus the events from those episodes haven't happened for her yet, but they will in her future. The Doctor will also give her his screwdriver in the future (but I think it will be as 12 or 13, because she talked about how the last time she saw him he had a new face). So from the Doctor's POV, it all happens in this order:
1) S4E08/09 - Doc (10) meets River for the first time, but River has met him before. River Dies. 2) S5E04 - Doc (11) meets River for the second time, River meets him for the first time. 3) Doctor and River form icky magical bond. 4) Doctor (12 or 13?) give River his screwdriver knowing that she is about to go on her library mission and does that crying thing she talked about.
Is that what you were asking? If not...sowwy. Ignore the long ramble.
Interesting commentaries, huh? Anything in particular?
Nooooooo...don't make me cry again!! OMG. I love that and I hate that, you know what I mean? I LOVE that it was in there and that tribute was paid, and then again I'm still like, I want my Ten backkk. lol. Seriously show, can you break my heart more?! I believe the answer is yes. lol. I have got such issues with moving on. And the fact that apparently there's DT hate going on in the fandom makes me go WHAT THE WHATTTTTTT? I know the people doing it are douches that were all about DT three months ago, I'll get over it. I'm not reading any of it, but just knowing it's there, *sighs* oh internet fandom. In reality I know the internet haters are a minuscule percentage compared to the people who were giving him those NTA's EVERY year and the show NTA's EVERY year of his run, but yeah...sorry I didn't mean to rant. LOL.
But you know I would love loveeeeeeeeee for DT to come back in any capacity! (And *cough* Rose *cough*) I really am interested to see where this season goes! And in the trailer the Doctor had a gun! That really surprised me. I'm curious to see what the circumstances of that will be. Of course TEN had a gun in EoT so the circumstance could be anything. But man, it was a really good trailer.
CONGRATULATIONS on your acceptances, bb!!! That's awesome!
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Oh God, I'm trying to stay away from fandom wank too--but I completely hate that it's there. I mean, its great that the fandom is so large, but at the same time, that just means that there are more rude idiots in it. I honestly don't understand the need to disparage an actor who was quite impressive in the role, even if he might not have been your cup of tea. I mean, I preferred DT to CE and MS, but that by no means means I'm going to run around insulting them, because they are great actors in their own right too. Though they're a small percentage, haters tend to be way more vocal those who like it, so it seems like they're everywhere. UGH. Now my turn to apologize for ranting. It's when I see stuff like this that I'm glad Camelot_Love is an isolationist community--it really helps enjoyment of a show when you don't have to deal with people trying to bait you. But to fight the DT haterade, I've equipped myself with more Ten icons to post everywhere.
BTW--just finished EoT. *SOBS.* Just when I'd accepted that he left...it all comes rushing back again. Some of the plot elements were a bit silly upon rewatch, but David, Bernard Cribbins, and John Simm did such an unbelievable job! I heart them all! And skydiving Doctor! I forgot how awesome that scene was.
You know what I'm NOT looking forward to though? River Song. I don't know why--even though I loved Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead...she bothers me a bit. Maybe I'll like her when she's completed.
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No other show has just destroyed me to the point of tears as much as this has.
SO much word. *sighs* And yet it's what we love about it! We are THAT connected to it.
I honestly don't understand the need to disparage an actor who was quite impressive in the role, even if he might not have been your cup of tea. I mean, I preferred DT to CE and MS, but that by no means means I'm going to run around insulting them, because they are great actors in their own right too.
EXACTLY. And honestly I think what I was surprised by the most was that ANYONE disliked him. I was under the (I suppose naive) impression that he was absolutely loved by everyone, both himself and his character. All over LJ even when I didn't watch I felt like I saw him all the time because so many people would have icons and stuff you know? Until S5 premiered I'd never seen anything to suggest otherwise. I guess it was when I started seeing posts by those HARDCORE, watched every single series since '63 fans, that I realized I must have been wrong. Honestly, I just can't understand how you could hate Ten, or the stories that were written for him. I just think everything was brilliant (maybe I'm easily pleased? idk). Ah well, every fandom has 'em, I should have realized this one was no different. I still think it's pretty rad that when put on a poll with every single Doctor he was voted the best of them ALL. That has to count for something. But yes, C_L is one of the best places ever because of the very fact that you mention. I'm gonna switch out some icons I think, get some new DT/Ten stuff going, plus I need to find a couple of the new series. :D
GAH, EoT is not for the faint of heart. When you talk about the silly elements you mean the Timelord stuff or the Master stuff or something else? lol.
Another thing that struck me out stuff I've been seeing lately was that I had no idea people thought EoT was indulgent on RTD's part and that Ten and the specials were too over the top. Again, I thought it was brilliant, and GAHHH do I love a good drama scene, so I thought the entire series of Specials lead up to his regeneration perfectly. Not only that, but his regeneration was perfect. Granted, they were very sad, but one thing that struck me about RTD's writing was even in this fantasy world he was VERY real. Maybe these people wanted the Doctor to be happy, peppy all the time? I thought it was more than believable that after being alive 900 years the Doctor would finally start to deeply question a lot of things in his life and things that have happened to him, especially after all the things he's seen and been through. It's silly to think he'd just all the time be going around happy as a lark. Ten was made to be "alien," "supernatural," whatever...but he still had some extremely human impulses and ideas which made him relate able and much more moving and poignant to me. A good, DEEP character, that's what I want...not one note, lets save the world each week, then it's over till next time...and I guess the peeps that didn't like it would have rather had the sci-fi explosions with a bit thrown in about him regenerating and not much said about it later. EoT made things REAL; made the struggles real and DT killed it. /tangent again! LOLLL. I need to take doctorwho off my watch list. lol.
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And there are always those who like to rage against the machine, taunting fans who liked the RTD/9/10 era just because it was popular. Mostly though, I think that the whole thing is quite reactionary. Those who loved S1-EoT were a very dominant force in fandom, and now that the 'reign has ended,' so to speak, people who didn't quite like see this as a reprieve. Unfortunately, that seems to mean idiocy to some people. I hope it dies down soon because I'm sick of seeing those stupid posts. I honestly wish doctorwho was as well moderated as merlin comms--free speech is great and all, but on the internet people tend to abuse it.
YES YES MOAR DT ICONS! Because I'm still mourning Ten, the only new series icon I'm allowing myself is the one I'm using right now. Though if I find a good Rory and 11 icon, I might use that. I think they'd make a great comedy team. I know everyone is all hopped up on that Jeff guy, but I like my characters a little dorky :P.
EoT--yeah it was some of the Master stuff (and a bit of the over-dramaticness from the Time Lords). I love the Doctor-Master rivalry, but sometimes the Master's plans are a little hokey--funny as all hell, but hokey. Even still, I loved their teamwork at the end! I really want to see the Master again, but I haven't decided if I want John Simm to only be 10's Master, or if I want him back to face down 11+.
Girl, I could not agree with you more about the specials if I tried. I thought the specials were excellent--I really liked that they were getting darker. It added a lot more dimension to the character, and were in line with how tired Ten must feel considering what he's been through. Then again, I prefer character driven stories to just plot of the week stories. It's why I don't want to watch OldWho--I'm sure it was good, but I don't think I would have liked it as much. I like to see the darker, emotional consequences to character actions. Wonder if people who think it was over the top prefer the relative lightness of OldWho for the opposite reason.
Okay, I have to go to a rehearsal now, but will be tackling all those other comments when I get back later (including River Song *shudder*). Okay rehearsal got pushed back a bit so I'll address RS now:
Yeah, well, I guess she got the RTD stamp of approval since she was created under his watch, but I still feel blindsided by the appearance of her character. I loved Rose, Martha and Donna as companions because I got to see how the Doctor came to care for them. Usually I like a little sneak peak into the future, but this peak was jarring. I guess when it comes to companions, I need to see them from the beginning, not at the end. But if I'm honest, my dislike stems from the fact that I like Rose the best. I hate to be petty like that, but it is what it is. I will try to keep an open mind. Some people have speculated that the whole River thing is actually a big con. Not sure I agree, but we'll see soon enough this season.
I assumed that she knew Ten was the Doctor because that's the only other person who would have been in the by then abandoned library? Or maybe she's known him for so long that she can spot him even if he as regenerated. I was actually wondering if that had something to do with her knowing his name--like maybe knowing his name allows her some special insight. They talked about the power of naming objects in the Shakespeare Code--maybe it's an old science that's also part of the Time Lords? When he asks River how she knows his real name, and who she is to him, he says something along the lines of "there's only one way I could have told you" and I've been dying of curiosity ever since. What's the way? And if it's good, TenII better be sharing it with Rose in Pete's world.
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Those who loved S1-EoT were a very dominant force in fandom, and now that the 'reign has ended,' so to speak, people who didn't quite like see this as a reprieve.
That's true. Plus, I never can understand, in ANY fandom, how if you hate a character SO much (especially the main character) WHY you continue to watch. If it's that torturous move on and stop ruining it for people that love it. It's that abuse of free speech you talk about. Some people just try to ruin things for everyone else. The internetz are a crazzyyy place for fandom rivalries that don't even really add up at all when you think about the overall percentages of people who don't go near internet fandoms.
I need to clear out all my icons and make them all DW/DT, etc. because that's all I've been using since I started watching back in Feb. LOL. It's an addiction. Definitely still in mourning, so I'm excited for tonight but again a little saddened. It will get better little by little as I force myself to accept it I suppose. lol.
OMG. If John Simm returned...WOW. He was just amazing. Then again, like you I kind of want him to be exclusively a part of Ten's era. DT and JS were SO SO amazing together. The Master never fails to crack me up. The thing that got me about the Timelord stuff was when Rassilon would speak it was like massive amounts of spit coming out of his mouth when he did it. LOL. I notice the weirdest things. Isn't Moffat pretty against bringing back anything that wasn't his in the RTD era? Like he wanted a brand new start to everything it seems. Which, btw, I'm not a huge fan of the new credits at all. I'm not feeling the new vortex and music. But again...new start, completely new show, and all that.
YES about OldWho. I don't think I'd be feeling it. I love characters that speak to me through their struggles and their triumphs. I haven't seen that out of 11 yet, but he's only been in one ep so far, so Moff might go there with him. I hope he does rather than leaving it just a comedy type thing. I remember in some interview DT did the interviewer was talking about DW being comedy and he replied with something like, "But is it really?" There's comic relief throughout the episodes of course, but the characters are much deeper than that.
Girl, if you're petty then I'm petty because I have that same feeling. And it's not like Rose was ever forgotten the ENTIRE series. I guess I just feel if Moff tries to change that it will be very inconstant on the Doctor's part and not true to the story thus far. And I guess I didn't like the fact that RS was supposed to be this all-knowing person that was more important in that moment than Donna or the Doctor. She rubs me the wrong way and if she tries to alter the story I'm not sure I can take it. lol. I will be cutting her off from the RTD era. But the Doctor has never had that love story, and I feel like Rose was his one and only so he shouldn't have it again. I'm horrible for that I guess. LOL. *crazy-shipper!*
That's interesting about the naming thing! That could be how she knew him. One thing that does make me feel a bit better is that she must have met him as someone else at first, and by the time she's dying he's Ten and doesn't know a thing about her and wants her to leave him alone...OMG. I really am horrible. LOL. I wonder how he could have told her?! I mean...it seems that he NEVER tells anyone, and apparently CAN'T tell anyone except for under certain circumstances...there must be some certain rule. Great that will now drive me crazy too. Oh and yes to Ten II telling Rose. :D
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I know, and that's why its so sad. To be fair though, from what I've seen today in the wake of E2, some 10 fans are equally guilt of this--again pretty reactionary-- trying to find fault with S5 so early in the run just because of all the hype from TEH. Give it time to get its sea legs before disowning Moffat. I think the took RTD 8 episodes to get S1 to someplace I found interesting. And you know all this mouthing off against S5 is just going to spur more insults directed backwards at S1-4. *Sigh.* It makes me tired just thinking about it.
Haha, I'm keeping at least one icon for other fandoms, should the need arise, but for the most part, I've been thick on the 10 icons. I never seem to want to use anything else :D. So I highly endorse your decision to do the same.
Then again, like you I kind of want him to be exclusively a part of Ten's era. DT and JS were SO SO amazing together.
Glad someone else agrees with me. Feels a bit selfish to think of it like that, but you know, in a show like Who, there are just some actor sets the go well together--and I'd like 11 to find his own version of the Master. I think it adds something to their rivalry that each regeneration of the Doctor has it's own regen of the Master. *loves these two*
when Rassilon would speak it was like massive amounts of spit coming out of his mouth
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG YES I NOTICED THAT TOO! It reminded me of the episode of Friends with Gary Oldman, where his character and Joey just spit at each other to enunciate.
Isn't Moffat pretty against bringing back anything that wasn't his in the RTD era?
Hn. Yeah, that's what he said, but then next week is Daleks and later Cybermen. Perhaps they're not RTD's per se, but they certainly were trademarks of his era. So maybe he just won't bring in things the RTD created, like the Ood (and Rose and Martha and Donna *angry face*). But I guess that still leave Jack open? It makes me a bit sad to say this, but I think we can pretty much kiss anything relating to 10s companions goodbye in the Moff era. I don't think he wants to audience reminded of them. I think that's one thing I would find hard to swallow about OldWho--once the companions were gone, they were forgotten. NewWho is great because that's not the case. I like the fact that Rose was never forgotten through S3-4, and Donna through the specials. And even Sarah Jane was brought back. I like that continuity. But that might be a trademark of RTDs era.
Well, I will trust Moffat for now because he does write great episodes, but I have to say I dislike the disdain he seems to show for things that came before him. I am curious to see how he fairs when he has to write not just 1 or 2 episodes per season but the bulk of them.
Yeah, not feeling the new credits. I guess 10 regeneration not only destroyed the Tardis, but it also turned the Time Vortex into a rain cloud O_o. And I can't really find the theme part of the new theme song. The main melody is missing through a good chunk of it. But I DO like the new action music for this season, and I can't wait to get my hands on it.
I love characters that speak to me through their struggles and their triumphs.
THIS SO HARD. I haven't read that DT interview, but what I really like about him is that since he's a fan himself, he gets the underlying nuances of why many of us like the show. It's about the continuous character growth.
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I'd like 11 to find his own version of the Master.
Yes! And since we're going all new, why not? Plus, as much as I love the callbacks, again, at the same time I like 10's era being exclusive.
LOLLLL. You know what's sad? I've never seen an ep of Friends. I am a bad, bad person I know! I have no clue how I missed out all those years.
It makes me a bit sad to say this, but I think we can pretty much kiss anything relating to 10s companions goodbye in the Moff era.
Unfortunately I'm thinking the same thing. He really does want this to be all new and I guess that is emphasized by the fact that it was promoted as S1. When they release the dvds I wonder if they'll call it S5 or S1? Hmm. I would love to see any of the old companions again, including Jack. And the Ood! *cries* I always think of their last moments on the screen with 10. "We'll sing you to your sleep." *chokes up* When I recall that stuff DUDE did RTD do a wonderful job with that or what? He really and truly showed regeneration as death and you could feel it for 10...so beautiful and so sad. But YES. I have never seen another show that did continuity like RTD did with Doctor Who because even if the character wasn't there, they were sure to come up in conversation or by the way you could tell the Doctor was reminded of them...and I LOVE that, and it's something I really admire about his writing.
I have to say I dislike the disdain he seems to show for things that came before him. I am curious to see how he fairs when he has to write not just 1 or 2 episodes per season but the bulk of them.
THIS. I think it's too early to tell yet, as you said, from people hating on the eps already, but for sure I don't like him disrespecting things that came before him. I gotta say, I can't claim to know him but I'm not too impressed by him outside of his writing. Just as you mention later, I read what he said about Karen and it was like WHOA. Did that seriously come out of his mouth? It was wrong in so many ways. idk. And I can see how he might be trying to "sex" up the show a bit more, even from the way grown up Amy was introduced, which I hope isn't her main purpose from his pov. As someone said on the thread about that quote, Rose wasn't a stick, nor was Martha, and Donna had curves and all three were amazing, strong, beautiful women. That shouldn't change. But again, still too early to tell if it's the way it will go all series.
ROTFLLLLL. A RAIN CLOUD!!! WIN. Agreed, about the theme. I love how prominent it was before. But YES, Murray is still writing some amazing music, like the stuff from the trailer last week. He's SO talented.
I haven't read that DT interview, but what I really like about him is that since he's a fan himself, he gets the underlying nuances of why many of us like the show. It's about the continuous character growth.
YES. You pretty well say it all. And what I love about David is that he is such a fanboy that he could bring SO much extra to the role and play off of things he knows about previous Doctors and just use the little subtle things to make the Doctor more his own. I wish I could remember what interview it was. I've seen so many as of late they all kind of run together. lol.
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When they release the dvds I wonder if they'll call it S5 or S1?
I was wondering that too. I guess we'll see pretty soon, right? I mean, the Merlin DVDs came out only a couple of months after the show ended. My guess is it'll depend on how well the show goes. If it can stand on its own, S1. If not, they'll tack it onto the previous run as S5.
I really loved the Ood too! Their song really does sorta open the flood gates in EoT2--it's so tragic and perfectly accompanies the regeneration. I also like what RTD did in expressing that regeneration is a bit like death, just because the Doctor is completely different after, despite having the same memories. 10 was entirely the opposite of 9, and 11 certainly isn't 10, and 12 won't be 11 at all. Obviously, personality is equality important to who a person is; when you take that away, you are essentially killing the character. I like that they acknowledged that.
I have never seen another show that did continuity like RTD did with Doctor Who because even if the character wasn't there, they were sure to come up in conversation or by the way you could tell the Doctor was reminded of them...and I LOVE that, and it's something I really admire about his writing.
THIS. SO MUCH THIS. You took the words right out of my mouth. It was much more realistic than completely forgetting the character entirely. I get a bit irritated when people say they didn't like that aspect of it, because I think it's really important to respect a character even after they've left by not forgetting they were around.
I'm not too impressed by him outside of his writing.
Ditto, but I'm really hoping to be proven wrong. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment--maybe it didn't come out how he meant it (though I'm not sure what else he could have meant). I personally hate it when shows try to "sex themselves up" gratutiously because it's becoming so cliche.
The trailer music is what I was talking about too! I sounded so good, and I love when the start playing it in episodes. I haven't heard it yet, but have they done a variation on the Doctor's Theme yet for this season?
He could bring SO much extra to the role and play off of things he knows about previous Doctors and just use the little subtle things to make the Doctor more his own.
Totally why I loved his performances. Because when they mentioned past Doctor events, you knew that he really did know what they were referencing. And I loved that--added so much to the character for me.
If you find interesting interviews, send 'em this way! There's so many that I have stopped trying to keep up with them all, but I love reading them!
And since I still have room, I'll talk about the audiobooks here. There are TONS of them--someone at doctorwho has been sharing them. I've got all those posts memed--let me know if you want the link. Only a smattering are done by DT, but I think the user posted everything they have that he's done in their first post.
BTW-- Have you seen the River Song post on doctorwho? Now I'm becoming even more curious about her character!
And lastly-- I need some lj formatting help because I'm layout stupid. I can't seem to get rid of that space between the lj tool bar and the top of my header--do you know how to do that?
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Yep. And I've come to find everyone has their own views and they're most likely not going to be changed so in that situation it's best not to get involved.
Ooo...that makes sense about the dvds! Good point.
Obviously, personality is equality important to who a person is; when you take that away, you are essentially killing the character.
EXACTLY. And Ten explains it perfectly. "Some new man walks away..." *cries* It's just SO sad. I've started S4 and then it will be time for the Specials. I may have to go back and watch some happy eps after those. lol.
I get a bit irritated when people say they didn't like that aspect of it, because I think it's really important to respect a character even after they've left by not forgetting they were around.
YES! And how would it be in life, truly? When you lose someone regardless of in what way, you never forget them, especially so soon after, and ESPECIALLY when they're SO important to who you are. It really just brought even more believability to a sci-fi show which I loved because for all of the monsters and creatures it made it feel as if these people could be real; that's how good the character continuity was I think.
I don't think I've heard a variation on the Doctor's theme yet. I wonder if Murray will write an entirely new one? I also want them to release the Specials music on soundtrack! Grr.
I'll be on the interview look-out! Have you seen David on the show QI? I can't remember if I asked you that already...lol. He was SO good. The man knows everything, I swear. It was really recent too! Just this past Christmas.
A link would be WIN. I would love to hear them all. And anymore Doctor/Rose I can get a hold of is ALWAYS good.
Have you seen the River Song post on doctorwho?
I just read through it last night. :D That is if you mean the entry by the person saying there were 3 ways RS could be involved with the Doctor. It was an interesting read. I'm NOT AT ALL for her being his wife...just no, so I liked that person's ideas. Plus, I think something like that would be kind of dull (besides the fact I'm not fond of her anyway) when she could be a baddie or have some sort of depth otherwise. The poster said something in the trailer suggested she was a baddie?
Hmm...well in the CSS there's usually a code you can enter I think. The code looks something like this I'm guessing?
.headerimage {
height: 150px;
background-image: url("http://example.com/headerimage.png") !important;
background-repeat: no-repeat !important;
background-attachment: scroll !important;
background-position: center !important;
margin-bottom: 15px;
}
I believe you can add in margin-top: 0px; in there and it should take it out. Or if you have the header height at too many pixels, if you lessen that number it might also take it out. I hope that helps! It took me a minute to remember how it could be fixed, so let me know if it doesn't work. ;)
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TOTALLY agree with that. To each his own. Agree to disagree and all the jazz. Hahaha look at us, we're so mature ^_^.
"Some new man walks away..."
YES--this is where his speech always gets me. Some new guys DOES walk away! I'm going to watch the DVD commentaries starting with S2 now. I've been dying too see these, but at the same time, I've been putting them off because once they're done, I have nothing to look forward to. Please do a movie together DT+BP~
you never forget them, especially so soon after, and ESPECIALLY when they're SO important to who you are.
Exactly how I see it too. So while it was unfair to Martha, yes, I think it was very true to Ten's state of mind at the time. He honestly didn't mean it--didn't even realize it. So while I do feel terribly for Martha (and annoyed at the producers for relegating her to the role of girl who pines after the Doctor), I can't really be made at the Doctor for it. Though it might be interesting to see how she interacts with 11--it was a questions over at DW that you probs saw, but I had to agree with everyone who said Martha. I think her personality would best fit in with 11s now.
DT on QI--is this different from the Comic Relief skit (with the White Suit?) If it is, THEN NOOOOOOO! *WANT IT NOW!*
Sent you a message about the audiobooks.
River Song-- yeah, I'm trying to keep an open mind about her being the Doctor's Wife, in case it is true, but I like how Moffy apparently says in the commentary that its not as simple as that. I need to listen for myself, but I'd love for there to be a greater mystery surrounding her. Some people were proposing that she was possible Rani for OriginalWho? That would be kinda interesting. Probably not true though. I'm glad that Moff has it all mapped out in his head--because that means we're more likely to see it!
Layout-- I tried adding 0px for margin-top, and changing the height, but it didn't work. I think it's actually because I'm using a flexible squares layout and there's a band around the top. Does that sound like it might be it?
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Gahhh, the commentaries. I haven't heard them all but I've been working my way through the DT ones. They're the ones I want to hear most of all, obvs. lol. I think I've heard all of them he did in S2 except for 'Girl in the Fireplace.' Haven't listened to it yet. I can't wait to hear his commentary on Journey's End either!! My faves are always when it's just actors commenting...and I like Julie Gardner too, she's a Ten/Rose shipper, I'm convinced. lol. The others get all technical with sets, and CGI, and all that, and I'm always wanting to know more about the characters and how things were acted and stuff.
He honestly didn't mean it--didn't even realize it.
YES. I've just made it to S4 and it's so sad when Ten tells Donna things got "complicated" between he and Martha. It was just better for them to part. It would be very cool to see 11 with her.
Yep, QI is a completely different show. It's where my default is from. He's wearing one of his velvet jackets, which kind of fits since it's Christmas and all...haha! It looks really nice. But he goes on about all this Beatles trivia. He's an encyclopedia. It's starts here and goes through five parts I believe. :D
Sent you a reply to your message. ;)
It's going to be so hard for me to keep an open mind if that's how things turn out with RS. lol. I just...can't make myself like her. We'll see how things go though, since you say, it's not that simple according to Moff. Hopefully it has nothing to do with them being romantically involved. I need to stop having expectations. ha. I do want to know already though, I wonder what ep she's in?
Awww..boo. I was afraid I was wrong. Hmm...that might be it. It's worth a look. I'm sorry I'm such a bad helper on this. I'm gonna keep thinking on what it might be.
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Yeah, in that scene where he tells Donna about Martha, I love the expression on his face. You can just see that he really regrets how he must have made her feel through it all. And that, of course, leads to one of my favorite scenes, "You're not mating with me, Sunshine." Hahaha *loves them*
OMG I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS! Okay, I'm saving it for next week, when all my work is done. YAY! I love stuff I haven't seen yet pops up. It's like a little present!
I want to say she shows up in 5 or 6. I think at this point, I really want to see her so we can get to solving the mystery surrounding her. It's driving me bananas. But, like you, I'd like to to be romance light.
Nah, thanks for the help--I so CS stupid that I wasn't sure if I'd coded wrong. I'll try to change me pattern at some point and see if it works. I also need to add a side bar for gifs *adds to to do list.*
OHHHH I need help IDing a DT gif. It's a close-up of his face, looking down (and his hair is blowing a little) and then he looks up at the camera. Hardly narrows it down, I know. I'm at work so I don't have it to post right now, but I'll show it to you later. I want the footage for the like MADNESS.
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YES about the commentaries. Listen to 'The Fires of Pompeii' with DT and CT...LOLLL. There's some other producer that doesn't really say a word, but I anticipated lots of laughter on that one. That's all I will say. ;)
OMG. The mating scene!!!! bwahahaha. I love how well that moment sets up their dynamic. She really is not interested. I love when she tells Martha in 4.04 that when she hugs him he's so skinny he gives her a paper cut. ROTFL.
Nice!!! It will be a great end of the week treat. ;) I still haven't nearly seen all of DT's interviews, so it's exciting to think about still having stuff to watch!
I want to say she shows up in 5 or 6. I think at this point, I really want to see her so we can get to solving the mystery surrounding her. It's driving me bananas. But, like you, I'd like to to be romance light.
YES. At this point I'm ready to just rip off the band-aid be it good or bad because it's going to be revealed whether we like it or not. Lets just know what it is already! lol. I'm glad she'll be in the first half of the season though so we don't have to wait as long.
Dude, CSS drives me crazy. If you miss one little period or parentheses is messes everything up. GRR.
Ooo...I'm not sure of this gif but I would LOVE to see. It sounds glorious. btw, is there a certain place you find all your gifs or do you just happen upon them mostly?
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In rewatching GitF, I still think it's a brilliant episode thought the Rose stuff doesn't seem to fit in as well. I mean, I'm glad they included little hints that the whole situation makes Rose uncomfortable, but at the same time, would the Doctor really have crashed through the mirror without leaving Rose and Mickey with a way out? He'd have effectively stranded them on that ship if he hadn't found a way back. But, despite my grievances, there are still moments in that episode that slay me. Like when Renette manages to see inside the Doctor's mind--his expression when he figures out what she's done. And at the end, when he gets the fireplace online and asks her to wish him luck, and she says no--his reaction there is so brilliant. That whole little exchange is just so powerful.
GAHHH I cannot wait to listen to these commentaries now! Actor commentaries really are the best. I can imagine that the CT and DT ones are hilarious, those two being who they are.
Yes, lets rip off this River Song bandaid. I just want answers. GRRRR.
Gah, I forgot to post the gif...tonight when I get home I will for sure. Mostly I just stumble upon them. I haven't done and extensive gif search yet--I need to increase my collection for DW, Arrested Development, and The Thick of It.
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GitF is also a beautifully shot episode. I'm always struck by that. Even those little clockwork monsters are beautiful, just as the Doctor says with the clear glass covering their gears. Yeah, the biggest thing about the ep is the Rose stuff, and I thought the same! The Doctor would never have left anyone with no way out, especially Rose. Granted, he did leave Jack behind but we know later that he did so knowing what had just happened to Jack. Not to say it was right or not, and his relationship to Jack is much different than his to Rose. I just don't see him ever stranding her or Mickey anywhere. I love when Reinette is talking about "the lonely little boy" and the "lonely angel," and how they relate things back to "suffering the demons is worth if for the sake of an angel," I find all that imagery very beautiful and true to the Doctor for everyone that seems to come in contact with him. There are definitely some great moments in there. Honestly, I think the Rose stuff comes back to the fact that Moff didn't seem to like her so he just totally disregarded the characterization built by every other writer. I think it's pretty evident with the River stuff too. Completely out of left field really, to me. But we will find out more about that next week! Which, now I'm trying to reconcile how 11 could have met her in the future...whatever happened with them happened...he thought of a way to save her when she went back to Ten's era...and now he's meeting her again? So by meeting Ten did they effectively change the future that they had had before? I have no idea if I'm making sense...the time travel stuff boggles my mind sometimes. LOL.
I listened to the 'Silence in the Library' commentary yesterday. Interesting stuff there...
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But in rewatching New Earth, I picked up on something that I missed before--when Rose/Cassandra meets up with the Doctor again, and she's leading him to find the hidden chamber, she starts recommending that he do things that really should be way above her level of expertise. But it's not until her lack of reaction to the sick people that he deduces that she's not her (or at least, that's the only thing he sites to the Cat Nuns). I thought that was a subtle commentary on how intelligent the Doctor thinks she is. It made me quite happy to realize that he holds her in such high regard. Or perhaps I'm just seeing things the way I want them to be :P.
Ditto to everything you said on GiTF. Beautiful, but a little hard to love completely with its obvious bias against Rose. I know! River is next week. It's weird, but I am actually kind of excited to see her (and the Angels) as it's an actual connection back to the 10-era. Moffy seems to be doing everything he can to destroy/redo the things that came before. Tardis (which was fine), Sonic Screwdriver (which saddened be a bit), and now the old Daleks (and am I the only one who though 'Taste the Rainbow' when the new Daleks were unveiled?). But this is really a link back to the previous show, and I find myself searching for those more and more every week. I don't know why, but it's like I want constant reminders that there was something that came before. Blahhh...I'm not making any sense.
I'm not sure I understand your timeline question, but the first time the Doctor met River, obviously, was as 10, at what became the end of her life. I'm assuming next week is the first time River meets the Doctor (but the second time the Doctor is meeting River), which is BEFORE the events of SitL/FoD relative to her timeline but after the events of SiTL/FoD relative to his timeline. So in next week's ep she should be younger than she was in SitL/FoD and thus the events from those episodes haven't happened for her yet, but they will in her future. The Doctor will also give her his screwdriver in the future (but I think it will be as 12 or 13, because she talked about how the last time she saw him he had a new face). So from the Doctor's POV, it all happens in this order:
1) S4E08/09 - Doc (10) meets River for the first time, but River has met him before. River Dies.
2) S5E04 - Doc (11) meets River for the second time, River meets him for the first time.
3) Doctor and River form icky magical bond.
4) Doctor (12 or 13?) give River his screwdriver knowing that she is about to go on her library mission and does that crying thing she talked about.
Is that what you were asking? If not...sowwy. Ignore the long ramble.
Interesting commentaries, huh? Anything in particular?
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